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Waffle House Customer Shoots and Kills Armed Robber

by Richard Nance   |  January 24th, 2012 134
Kenneth Jowan Craig

Kenneth Jowan Craig, 29, was arrested as a suspect in a failed armed robbery at a Spartanburg, S.C., Waffle House in which 19-year-old Dante Lamont Williams was shot and killed. Williams was shot after pointing his gun at an armed citizen. (Photo courtesy of WACH)

On Saturday, January 21, 2012, at a Waffle House in Spartanburg, S.C., a customer with a concealed weapon permit drew his handgun and verbally challenged two robbers, at least one of whom was armed with a handgun.

According to WACH, when the armed customer ordered the robbers to wait for the Spartanburg County Sheriff’s deputies to arrive, one of the robbers pointed his gun at the customer, who then fired his own gun, killing the armed robber, identified as 19-year-old Dante Lamont Williams. The second robber, identified as Kenneth Jowan Craig, 29, was later arrested and charged with armed robbery and possession of a weapon during a violent crime.

In this case, the only person shot was the armed robber who pointed his gun at the legally armed citizen. However, despite this relatively positive outcome, this incident brings to light several very real concerns. Remember, just because you’re armed doesn’t mean you have to take action. Taking action should not be “instinct,” but rather a reasonable decision made based on the specific factors surrounding your particular incident.

Deciding to engage two armed robbers is brave, but probably not very smart. In fact, even when there seems to be only one suspect, you better assume there are more. Situational awareness is a huge factor. Even after engaging a threat, you must train yourself to scan for additional threats. If you get so focused on the bad guy you just shot, you could very well be shot by his friend while you’re admiring your work.

Another controversial issue is giving verbal commands to an armed criminal. Action vs. reaction tells us when you do so, the bad guy will get the first round off most of the time. I’ve seen this in force-on-force scenarios, and it enables a bad guy with his muzzle lowered or pointed at his own head, for instance, to point the gun at you and squeeze of a round before you can pull the trigger – even when your gun is pointed at him and you’re ready to fire. If at all possible, issue verbal commands from behind cover.

In a crowded Waffle House, issuing a verbal command to two armed robbers could potentially endanger others inside the business. A verbal command might also prompt a gunfight which otherwise might not have occurred.  Would the legally armed citizen in the Waffle House have been justified in shooting the armed robber without giving a verbal warning?

Consider these possibilities now so that you will have a plan should you find yourself in a similar situation. Of course, your plan will have to be flexible and take into account the “totality of the circumstances” surrounding the incident. Do yourself a favor and think about these things ahead of time. Don’t rely on marksmanship alone — that’s the “easy” part.

  • joe_plumber

    I love happy endings. All good citizens arm themselves then dumb animals will have no chance.

  • Zimmerman

    Getting a 19 years old kid killed is not much of a happy ending to me. Of course, that's still better than having a law abiding citzen killed though.

    The gunfight and the robbery may been avoided had the armed customer ordered to get the hell out of there. By ordering the suspect to wait for their arrest, he gave them the choice between years of prison and a shootout. He could have been killed himself, or an innocent bystander could have been hit by a stray bullet.

    That being said, it is always easier to be smart sitting in front of your laptop. This guy reacted courageously in the heat of the situation.

    • Gregory

      A armed robber was killed, not a kid! No innocent bystanders were killed or hit, happy ending……..

    • http://www.facebook.com/locotonyf Tony Freeman

      Order the armed robber to get the hell out of there??? That would have been the most irresponsible course of action possible!

    • VaShooter

      19 isn't a kid. The law would regard him as an adult and I see no loss. One less scum bag on the street.

      • Travis M

        Correct! He was just a young adult. Meaning he had long time to sit in prison. Soaking in all the free medical care and hot food. All while learning tricks from the hardened criminals.

      • Schteveo

        …or in jail, with the tax payers feeding, clothing and housing him for 7 – 10 years!

    • Matthew L Hanson

      Evil prevailes when good men do nothing! Should the legal citizen ordered the criminals to leave? What if the criminal killed some one at the next place he tried to rob. A responsable adult will not give an armed criminal a chance to escape only to commit another crime against humanity.
      He did the right thing as far as I can see based on avalable information on the shooting.

    • Bobby D

      Might have been avoided if the 2 criminals hadn't come into the Waffle House in the 1st place.
      Gotta pay to play, roll the dice and take your chances!
      Looks to me like 1 of 'em rolled snake eyes! You lose!

    • Big Irish

      I have to agree with Zimmerman here. A kid made a really bad choice and paid the ultimate price. I can't really see how this man making this decision is a happy ending. Now he has to deal with this for the rest of his life and several of you think this is happy? I know many of you will call me a wuss and how we need to take America back and all that hyper macho rhetoric that's so easy to spew from your annonymous perches in cyber space. This is sad, period. Necessary, but sad. Yeah, i carry and I train to do the same thing this man did, but I hope and pray I never need to defend me or mine. I will if I have to, but I'd never concider it a happy ending. Now, let the bashing begin on how stupid and liberal I must be… Here, I'll help you out…"damn liberal democrat, i bet you voted for Obama didn't you"

      • TGM

        Wow, a reasonable comment. Who'da thunk it on a thread like this? You're absolutely right. Killing another human being, even a scumbag, is never a "happy" occasion. Also, holding these two subjects in a restaurant filled with customers could have turned out to have been a real tragedy. Was this customer brave? Sure, but he took quite a risk with other people's lives by the actions he took.
        I'm a former use of force instructor and I carry as well. Most of the comments I see here are probably coming from a sense of frustration and rage and I can relate to where some of them are coming from.

      • SkyRat

        Big Irish. I agree with you. This like cleaning up after a dog. Its a dirty thing, that, sadly, needs to be done.

    • john white

      He got what he deserved!!!!!!

    • miro

      He might also have allowed the robbers to get the hell out of there under a condition of dropping guns down. If not taken well, THEN shoot.
      It's too late for them now, but may help someone else in future – no one gets hurt, good lesson learned.

    • Eduardo Slovik

      Doofus!
      How can you tell if a bad guy is really gonna pull the trigger? When he pulls the trigger and your armed dumazz is dead 'cause you been watching too many cop shows.

      Producing a weapon in the midst of a crime is an automatic death sentence. Say nothing. Shoot early and often until the perp is leaking like a sieve. Shock and awe is the only survival instinct you need.

  • https://www.facebook.com/barchen36 David Scott

    And what happens when the armed 'bad guy' starts shooting?

    • josh

      The guys Shoots his ass in the face… There for a happy ending(:

    • Tom

      Well if he even thinks about shooting, this old Marine would drop him in his tracks before he could react. Actually, I would have put one in his mellon, preferably while his back was turned, then double tap to the chest & 1 to the head of his partner, NO warning, just like we were taught in 65.
      I still put 50-100 rounds into the man targets each week minimum, drawing from my CCW holster both aimed & point shooting. Groin, heart, head, with a .45 works every time.

      • SemperFlyBoy

        Tom! What are you thinking! By my count, you would still have had 3-4 rounds left!
        Semper Fi my brother.

        • Tom

          Need to keep a couple in case another scum bag needs a hole in the head.

    • Bill

      You SHOOT back…. Kill or be killed. sorry he was a dumb ass but he made a bad decision.
      NO MORE NO MORE NO MORE….it is no longer ok to decide you need money and walk into
      a place of biz to rob them and or hurt innocent people. NO MORE. bravo to the armed civ. I love it.
      WE DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE IN FEAR ANYMORE. Arm yourselves. Practice, know your weapon and
      fear no more.

    • hicusdicus

      You have a valid point. There is no defense for collateral damage. The shooter can be held responsible no matter what the reasons were. Collateral damage must be considered before the hammer is dropped.

    • THOMAS

      YOU SHOOT BACK, TO KILL !

    • rich

      the robber drops 5 or 6 customers while you try to get your gun out. better to drop both robbers and let god short them out and save the tax payers the expense of trying to convict them.

  • davidster2002

    Is this article trying to make the armed shooter look bad? This guy is a frickin HERO! What might have happened if he didn't take action? Innocent people may have been shot. Don't think for one minute this guy did something wrong. In fact, he's invited to go eat with me anytime! We need to stand up to criminals and take our rights back and If that means killing a few on the way, so be it!

    • http://www.facebook.com/locotonyf Tony Freeman

      I'm with you! The armed criminal got what he deserved!

      • Dan

        The armed citizen obviously assessed the situation and acted accordingly based on the situation. It's quite easy for people to second guess what this hero did. Consider that it was a high stress situation with a gun pointed at him, and still he was able to draw his own weapon and eliminate the threat. Unless one had been in that type of situation, one does not have the right to question this hero's decision to use deadly force.

  • Scott

    I live in Spartanburg County and it was reported right after the robbery that one of the robbers was taking the employees into the back room and the one that was shot was telling the customers to lay on the floor. There has been robbers around here that they have killed the employees after taking them into the back and having customers get on the floor. The report I heard was the guy shot when he feared he was going to be shot and did not say any thing to the bad guy before shooting. I would have done the same thing, he doesn't have to give the guy robbing the place any verbal warning

    • hicusdicus

      What is the actual truth? There is a big difference between the reported story and yours.

  • Dennis

    I'm sure his family will be on the news crying about how he didn't deserve to get shot and that he was a good kid. I can't wait to hear the liberal comments start about how he didn't deserve to get shot, how someone should have called the police…blah…blah….blah… Come on lefties let;s hear it!! LOL!

    • https://www.facebook.com/BGDave53 David E. Jennings

      I'm a lefty as you say and I carry. I also believe in the preservation of life MINE. I just hope that this is a lesson all the other idiot robbers read and let them know what to expect before they decide what establishment or person they target or become a target.

      • Linda

        I too am a lefty and carry. The right seems to think they are the only ones who love our contry, will stand up to evil, like and own guns or hunt and fish or camp or other outdoor things. Political parties don't give you morals or courage or good judgement. Virtue and hobby interest transcend politics folks.

        We are all Americans and most Americans are brave and loyal our contries principles.

        Be fair when discussing issues please?

        • lost call

          OK Lets get this Lefty vs Democrat strait. Lefty is saying you are Liberal, You see there are Righty/ conservative Democrats. If you are a true Liberal/lefty then your philosophical platform is GUN CONTROL ie only the govt and You should have guns; also disdain for our military and a hatred of Capitalism and those who are sucessful in business. While admiring overly wealthy Hollywood actors who do not have two brain cells to rub together.

          I agree running thru the woods and hugging trees and fish has nothing to do with politics.

          • Terrell Snapp

            It is not democrat or republican, it is "American'! American, heart, body, and soul. God willing! Protect Family and all in peril! Just like the Greatest Generation gave us the freedoms we have today. The world should not change us, otherwise it was all in vain. Freedom For ALL willing to vote for it, and given the ability!!!!! VOTE PRO AMERICAN CONSTITUTION!!!!

        • https://www.facebook.com/jburgherr Jay Burgherr

          Linda and David. Congratulations on maintaining your senses and your God given rights protected by the Constitution. The predominance of liberals are indeed against citizen ownership of Guns as is evidenced by the laws they seek to pass in the legislatures. We look to you to help educate your liberal brethren as they simply shut down when we conservatives explain with facts, figures and unaltered history, as it does not fit their world view. It is not fair for you to be lumped in, but with very few exceptions the lines on 2nd Amendment issues are drawn on very well established political lines.

          Political parties don't give you morals, however some political parties just do a better job of protecting and holding on to them. Lately, I'm sorry to say, looking at the two major parties, you'd be hard pressed to see a nickels difference between the two. One's philosophy (Liberal vs. Conservative) now better defines these lines more-so than one's party.

          I, am quite obviously, very conservative. Thank you both for your love of the country!

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1251301422 Sbd Rancott

            Agree, dem or rep…male female…gay straight…..don't matter, we are AMERICANS AND LOVE OUR COUNTRY, hate the folks whom wish to violate our freewill and want to live & let live. period.

          • TGM

            I'm an atheist and a conservative. I disagree with you on the "god given" origin of rights, but you make some great points otherwise. Keep fighting the good fight.

        • Tom

          Sorry Linda but almost all lefty libs are totally against you on your right to carry, shoot & protect yourself & others. They want you to let "big brother" protect you, even though, "big brother" not only won't but can't protect "anyone".

          Also, "most" Americans are not brave, loyal or willing to sacrifice! They are the sheep & without us "sheepdogs" to protect them they would be food for the wolves.
          Semper FI

          • sky

            If we all followed what we think "leftys" or "rightys" think and do, than life would be pretty predictable. Thank goodness we are not all as simple as you make us all sound.

    • Dan

      Oh boy… here comes those protesters again carrying this dead guys kindergarten photos tsk tsk tsk

  • PsychoCowboy

    This is a clear case of the exact reason why the 2nd A is here. Some choose not to exercise their right, and thats fine. But when lazy greedy wannabe thugs illegally obtain a weapon and increase the bad rep they already recieve by such a vast number of ill informed, those exercising that right who stand and take such great risk on behalf of all those around, who were in a place enjoying a meal, have done a service to the greater, responsible, respecting community. Imagine if the undisciplined little "thugs" went out daily to commit their acts on defenseless people. Where do you believe you would be today?

  • Mike

    Can't say I like the pretentious tone of this article. You don't know if his entire focus was on the gunman or if he was scanning for additional threats. You can't even say for certain they were both armed or that a verbal warning was given. What's the point of even being armed for your protection if you don't use it when you're in a threatening situation?
    "Action vs. reaction tells us when you do so, the bad guy will get the first round off most of the time." – Doesn't really seem so in this case now does it? Every indicator was the gunman had his weapon in some form of not ready position, with the citizen having sights on target. Even if a verbal warning was issued, the citizen was prepared for the reaction good or bad.
    Do YOURSELF a favor and "take into account the “totality of the circumstances” surrounding the incident" before writing a holier than thou article. I'm proud to live in a state where we have armed citizens willing to stand up to people like this.

    • BJC

      Mike I have to agree with you, the writer here is stating things with no statistics or hard evidence to back up his statement. I believe any law abiding citizen who is willing to carry a weapon would be willing to use it and common sense tells us if he has his gun trained on the criminal and the criminal has his gun pointed elsewhere and moved to in-gauge the citizen the criminal would lose every time unless his weapon failed to fire. Also other posts here report conflicts to the reporters story so I think that if you weren't there to witness the act you shouldn't be commenting on what the CCW holders actions should have been. I also believe we as law abiding citizens need to strike fear into the minds of these criminals instead of the other way around. I commend this citizen for being brave and taking action against the criminals and possibly saving lives of innocent people. As for the nineteen year old who died, it was his decision to arm himself and threaten the lives of innocent people in committing this crime and he got what he deserved.

  • T WILLIAMS NO RELAT

    ONE LESS " GANGSTA "

  • Coinneach

    I am glad to see that the Waffle House does not frown upon CCW or they may have no business but the bad guys.

    • Kerry

      Oh yeah, Waffle House banning guns, then the only two people in there would have been the robbers. Kinda stupid to rob one anyways, too many "normal" people in one. When I was a cop in Texas, all the 7-11's had a sign saying. There may be an officer on duty in here and if you draw a weapon you will be killed without warning. I worked many of those details on overtime and still people tried to rob 7-11s. Course the last thing they heard was the primer detonation.

  • https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000366455810 Ken Barnes

    He would have been justified in shooting them both with no warning, if he fearedfor his or the customer's lives as I'm sure he did. The only thing he did "wrong", if anything, was warn them. The robbers should both be dead.

  • Howard

    Points well taken, but it sure is nice to see the gene pool getting cleaned up.

    • RandySuper

      Racist!

      • earlyboomer

        Didn't you mean realist??

      • https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1542036442 Al Brady

        Randy, I don't believe it was stated what race the citizen that protected himself, others in the Waffle House and probably many other future victims is; nor did Howard state his race. Please put your pointless venom back in your pocket till you know whereof you speak!

    • Rudy

      well that's racist

  • AZResident

    This is why I canceled my subscription to this publication…every article dealing with armed self defense was poorly researched and the tone was always accusatory toward the reader. Very bad form indeed!

    • earlyboomer

      In addition to not agreeing with your comment, I might also suggest that there may be another reason for your cancellation of your subscription. Looks like even though your subscription is cancelled, you are still reading the magazine but for free now. Complaining about free stuff seems a bit ungrateful.

      • https://www.facebook.com/jburgherr Jay Burgherr

        Deciding to not pay for a product such as a magazine because of its editorial slant seems to be the obvious way to get the attention of the publisher. The publisher has decided to provide some (not all) articles on their website…along with the ability for subscribers and non-subscribers alike to comment on them. I see this too as an appropriate way to get the publisher's attention. If they get enough complaints, and it starts hurting their bottom line, they can decide to change attitudes or possibly go out of business as they are no longer in touch with customers core beliefs.

        I think there is nothing wrong with what AZResident did and see nothing ungrateful about it.

    • https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1542036442 Al Brady

      Rudy, stating that an individual that has made the conscious decision to arm himself for the purpose of commiting a possibly violent felony has accepted and initiated his own possible death is being realistic. That has nothing to do with racism.

      AZres, the poor research seems to come from the contributors that post some nonsense. You have canceled your subscription; therefor, you should not make use of the soap box that the magazine provides. That is as your line …. "Very bad form".

  • Antonio

    I'd like to think that if this happened more often, there'd be fewer brazen criminal acts. I mean, you can't even get a waffle without being accosted! What's next, pancakes?

    • Hersfelder

      Fell outta my chair laughing!!! Pancakes….with syrup, no less!

  • Richard Nance

    For those concerned that I was being critical of the concealed carry permit holder who shot the armed robber, I appreciate your comments. Keep in mind, I based my blog on the limited information available to me at the time in order for the blog to by "timely" and relevant. If the robbers were taking employees into a back room, as one reader suggested, then the situation changes completely. I have no doubt there are readers here who are very proficient shooters and highly competent decision makers BUT there are other readers who are not as experienced and may assume that simply carrying a gun is all they need to stay safe. I don't pretend to have all the answers but I hope to pose questions that will help some readers to consider things they might not have otherwise considered. It is easier to offer commentary after the fact but it's also easy to assume the good guy did everything right when in many cases, luck played a huge factor in the successful outcome. Thanks for your comments!

    • Guest

      Common sense isn';t so common….and hindsight is a 100% science

  • T'eL

    The article poses too many "What if" scenarios. The armed citizen made a quick rational decision with the situation at hand. The armed citizen may have already assed the situation when he made he decision to draw his weapon. The article doesn't state this for our clarity.The armed suspect was taken out by lethal action. The armed suspect made the decision to point the gun at the armed citizen and it cost him his life. Consquences of a very bad decision. .

  • Vincent Brochu

    This is a clear cut case of taking America Back from the criminal world !! The prisons should give Bread of water and maybe the people would think about what they are doing before they decide to do crime!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/jmhjetmech James M. Holland

      I like Sheriff Joe's treatment for the bad guy's. pink prison cloth's, Army GP large tents, and Green Balony.

  • jeff

    Good for the armed citizen. Thats one more thug becoming worm food. I dont think the G&A editor was at all trying to put the good guy in a bad light. He is just trying to get his point across with "think thoroughly first."

  • T.D. Honeycutt

    For me, I'm glad you are providing such situations for people here to listen and learn. Based on the information available, the only thing this citizen that can be critiqued is wait and issue a verbal command. Like you, I believe there's no call for me to protect some restaurant's till, but I'll be damned if I'll be herded into a back room or watch as others are taken there. And when you act, you must act decisively – for you and for the other citizens around you.

  • Gary

    One shot, one kill 'nuff said.

  • MotoJB

    Awesome….one less scumbag on the earth.

  • M Casabianca

    The totallity of what really happened will never be known because of the editor.The armed citizen was correct in shooting the felon because a gun was being pointed @ him and he acted in a clear cut case of self defense.My gut tells me that the reporter my have "embellished" the story by saying that the hero was issuing verbal commands to the robbers in a attempt to find something wrong with one shot,one kill,and one less piece of trash occupying this planet.JMHO

  • mrbigtex

    Another one bites the dust.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002442857760 Ray Marchetta

    Anyone pointing a loaded gun at you is "a man with a gun" regardless of age. All bullets are less than 10 years old. Bullets don't care who sends them, they can kill. He knew the job was dangerous when he took it.

  • D. W.

    Good to be armed…. Good to defend yourself…. and others! That FACT makes the guy a hero in my book!

  • The Whizard

    Thanks for a good blog, Richard. This article reminds me that although I train through active pistol exercises I don't usually know what is going on around me. My wife, who also carries, sees, and hears everything. She sometimes makes comments about customer's 4 tables away! This blog did what what I believe it intended. It reminded me there is more to self defence than being able to hit what you aim at.
    I hope everyone who carries also trains to shoot. It's fun and very necessary.

  • Lando

    Now let's get to the sporting stuff. What caliber, load, firearm, weaver stance, etc. ?

  • ken

    No where does it mention whether or not the waffle house had valid, legal, paid-up,registered permit to sell waffles ! This incident is ample proof of the inherent danger in any free-wheeling marketing of un certified waffles !

    I know that they would not be able to do that here in
    California !

  • Reisingowner

    Having eaten in a Waffle House I find myself lucky to have survived the bad food.
    As to the robbery, I'm glad the event didn't go "south" and end up tragically.

    • tuff snuffy

      Thems figth-n words.

  • Leonard M. Urban

    FYI: There's something else to consider here. In the People's Republic of New Mexico, our Bernalillo County DA brought murder charges against a man who shot a crackhead that was trying to steal his vehicle. Because the man couldn't afford legal counsel, a high profile, high dollar criminal defense attorney was assigned to the case. The lawyer–who must have had misgivings about taking the fee-less job, instructed the young man to accept a plea bargain, in which he'd plead guilty to a lesser charge, and serve no time. The man foolishly took that advice, and was sentenced to prison by the District Court judge, who rationalized his violation of the plea bargain by claiming that the defendant didn't seem sufficiently contrite. The only reason the young man isn't STILL in the state pen, is because a local radio talkshow host, one Jim Villanucci, took up the cause on his show, and eventually shamed the governor into shaming the judge into commuting the sentence to time served. Upon leaving prison, the man was served with a summons–the crackhead's family sued him for millions of dollars. The man will also remain a convicted felon

  • Good Reloads

    Mr. Nance, you stated the situation very well–lack of digging for necessary facts. BTW, it is the Sheriff of Spartanburg county who said in an unambiguous way that citizens, especially females, need to get their permit and to arm themselves. He's taken a lot of heat from the liberal media, but he is unapologetic about his stand. Would it have been too much trouble to contact the spokesman of whichever agency that has law enforcement jurisdiction at the WH to get a statement? The article is good as far as it goes, and could have been an outstanding article, but wasn't. Inasmuch that we don't have certain information, I tend to default to the judgement of the citizen, who was there. Too much "armchair quarterbacking" of the incident for my taste.

  • Ken

    If we had the bad guys more concerned that they would be facing the good guys with CCWs, then we would have less incidents like this one. Then you still have to deal with the crooks being just plain dumb.
    Ken

  • A PROUD JARHEAD

    Watch out for Christie and our certain Goverment Officials that only want the SCUM BAGS having weapons STAND UP AMERICA and take OUR COUNTRY BACK OOH_RAAH!!!!

    • M. James

      You mean Gov Christie of NJ? He commuted a sentence for a guy who was relocating to NJ,
      family member called police because the guy had firearms in his car (stored unloaded and proper).

      they searched his car and he ended up in jail. Gov Christie helped get him out and the guy
      is fighting the original sentence on appeal, NRA is helping.

  • Randy W.

    Apparently 'ol Dante forgot the old saying: "If you're gonna point it, use it." No sympathy for him or his partner in crime. By the way, Jowan looks great in inmate orange doesn't he?

  • Good Reloads

    "Deciding to engage two armed robbers is brave, but probably not very smart. In fact, even when there seems to be only one suspect, you better assume there are more. Situational awareness is a huge factor. Even after engaging a threat, you must train yourself to scan for additional threats. If you get so focused on the bad guy you just shot, you could very well be shot by his friend while you’re admiring your work."

    Mr. Nance, you had classified this as a "relatively positive" outcome. Then, you called the responding citizen stupid for having engaged two suspects, and ended the above paragraph with a lecture of not "admiring your work." I don't know one responsibly armed citizen that would respond with admiration to the fact that he/she had just killed another human being. I've been a LEO, and I assure you that deadly encounters don't sit easy on the mind of officers involved in a shootout. This type of verbiage plays right into the hands of the anti-gunners. Perhaps this will be a learning experience for you, as well; I certainly hope so.

  • Mark

    This link (hope it's permitted; o/w search waffle house shooting south Carolina): http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/298946/28/South-

    gives a more detailed story, just as "Scott" said above. It says the CCW holder, ""From all the witnesses…that wasn't his first reaction was to grab the gun and start shooting. He absolutely tried to make them stop and he would have been just fine waiting for us to get there and arrest these two guys," says Sheriff Chuck Wright. " As well, the "suspects," had did have patrons on the floor and were taking employees in the back.

  • cops.dad

    Exactly why I sit facing the door. And scan the parking-lot. And look up, down and across the street.

  • Dondo

    Too bad very few folks in California, and none in Illinois are allowed to possess a CCP and defend their life and that of others as this person did in South Carolina. Seems as though where these permits are most needed they are not allowed. That guy would have probably been quickly derailed here in Idaho also.

    • Linda

      Oregonians aren't shy on real self defense either. It is too bad the anti gun politicos in both parties think disarming us will stop the crime and violence. It will only increase by the thugs and druggies against us if they know we can't shoot back.

      I suggest, every law abiding household should be required to be armed as a deterrant to the scumbags who prey on the public, especially in their domains. The Castle Doctrine and the National Right to Carry would be very helful in controlling crime in our country.

      Time for citizens to stand up vocally for their rights to self defend and own guns capable of doing so.

      Support the NRA and the Oregon Firearms Federation.

  • Bel

    o.k… so.. the article says what was wrong, could you enlighten us with what should the "perfect" scenario be?, according to the law that is….

  • David Lee

    the dirtbag came in a place of business to rob the place and the people, You do not know what else he is thinking. I would have not said a word to that dirtbag and drilled him and saved ever one in the Waffle House, Everone goes home to ther family and childern safely. We now need more people like that man who did the job. Safe waffle house safe pancakes. All I can say is good rocking and rolling.

  • Steven

    That's what I call smothered and covered

  • MiramarBob

    My NRA Florida Concealed Weapons instructor told us that we are not law enforcement and therefore do not issue verbal commands–If the perp appears about to hurt someone, just shut up & shoot them in the back of the head–otherwise, you could be charged with impersonating a law enforcement officer.
    How should you in other states handle the issue?

  • Frank G in Tennessee

    Any word about the CCW ???????? I’ll bet he has and will have a few sleepless nights ………. No one wants to take a life; On a rare occasion the circumstances warrant sending the round.

  • Lefty in AZ

    Lefty???? Yup I am one too…been a south paw all my life. Harder than heck to find a holster in stock anywhere. I am a CCW and will defend myself, family, and other innocent citizens. My wife and I shoot several times a month. In the CCW class we were instructed that we could warn an individual who is threatening us that we were armed and if the threats continued we would defend ourselves. For those who carry get training and practice. In today's society you never know when someone will threaten your life. Sad but true.

  • Love my ARs

    I love the "rolled snake eyes comment" LOL. If more scumbags like this got one to the face, you would see much less crime.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Ebony.Romance William Payton

    I'm all for defending right over wrong. I think the CCW holder did the right thing. And no I dont believe race had anything to do with it. If you make the decision to carry a gun into a place of business for the purpose of robbing them, then yes you need to be dropped where you stand. I couldnt care less what color you are. Too many times its the unarmed innocent customer who gets shot right along with the clerk(s). Not this time… Hats off to the CCW holder. I'm Democrat majorily but I have common sense and a common sense of decency.

  • Doug Rooney

    I'm liberal and a CCW holder, the man exhibited a great deal of courage and I believe did the right thing but the taking of a life is no small matter but if you intend to do harm then you should be prepared to have harm done to you.

  • Jim Shelton

    I think that when it"s "crunch time" your heart is pounding your gasping for air and you are not able to play what if scenarios. The only thing you can do, once you have drawn your firearm and decidied to take action, is go into combat mode and react to whatever situation ensues. The armed robber has instigated the actions you have been forced into and by the time you decide you are in a life or death confrontation your training must take over and you must act swiftly and end the threat as quickly as possible. I commend the armed civilian for his actions and once again a textbook case of why our second ammendment rights are so improtant, powerful and precious.
    God Bless Thomas Jefferson,

    • Steve

      Wow guys read the posts again it started as a simple point was th shot justifieied I say yes what is the deal with the post script meley

  • Andrew

    Wow, really? You have the right to say it, but you sure sound stupid exercising that right.

  • SimpleMan

    A lot of you all raise good points and have good things to say about this man who "saved the day" and i to commend him for his actions. There is no telling how many lives he saved that day by taking the action he chose to take. Does anyone know if the guy had had any previous Police/Military training ?

  • Hammer1

    I also have a CCW here in Arizona and NEVER leave the house without my hi-cap 14 round .45ACP and two spare 14 round mags tactical folding knife and Surefire E-2 Defender tactical light with "pain compliance" bezel and my cell phone. I also have a little higher level of training as I work as a "Bail-Enforcement Agent" and have pursued violent criminal in the past. The only advice I would make and change in the tactical 'outcome' was rather than ordering the "armed criminal" to stop cease and desist and wait for the Local Sherriff to arive. Once clealy assessing the situation with the armed robber and making sure NO one was in the line of fire to issue one simple command. "Drop the weapon" Of course the armed customer should already have his sites on center mass!!! And if Buckwheat so much as twitched double tap 2 rounds to center mass and follow up with head shot

    • guest

      since you used the term "buckwheat" in this post, you can be sure that if you shoot someone in AZ, you better hope it is not an American of non-white ancestry because that is the first thing the professional law enforcement officers do…they look for r posts on the subject……in Arizona you are more likely to be convicted of a hate crime than just about any other state in the Nation because most of us know how many race haters we have who run around armed to the teeth looking for someone to kill…..

    • robert tw krawiec

      Also have no problem with outcome but depending on where you live, final shot to robbers head would put you in jail. Once he is out of the fight, execution is frowned upon. Military training, e.g. Navy Seals teach this 2 and 1 to the head as S.O.P, however may get you in trouble depending upon where you live unfortunately.

  • Jerramie in Michigan

    I don't think it really matters where it was, what town or state. What matters is that someone tried to broke the law with the intent of doing harm if necessary to get what they wanted.

    You have a legally armed citizen who decided to defend himself, his fellow man, and a place of business where he frequented. Now you may or may not agree with that but the point still stands – the robbers made a choice, the armed citizen made a choice – had they chosen differently – other people could have wound up dead.

    I am thankful that when I walk into a building that is occupied by the public there are people who legally carry firearms in defense of not only themselves but also me, my family, and all the other law abiding citizens.

    It is sad that someone had to die in this particular incident. Human life should never be given a value. Unfortunately there are people out there who do not believe the same.

  • Paco

    Race has nothing to do with it… A scumbag is a scumbag, no matter his color… He tried to rob, and possibly do physical harm, to innocent people who were simply out enjoying a meal… He got what he deserved. End of story.

  • Denny A

    I qualified expert in the service and I still pack. I applaud the shooters actions. If the anti-gun crowd got their way we would all be sheep and the bad guys would have nothing to fear…like in Australia.

  • Vince

    Your comment is stupid and offensive. I am white, conservative, and a carry permit holder. I also have a next door neighbor who has ancestors from Africa. When a person assumes to know a person's character from their skin color they take away the right of individuality. My neighbor chooses to be a good family man who I respect. It is too bad that you deprive yourself of the opportunity to see the good in good people who are black.

  • Santino

    A situation like this was the fault of the robbers. Any thing that happens as a result should fall on their shoulders. When your armed in a situation like this one there are only two out comes. You die or they die. I'm happy no one else got hurt. and the bad guy will not have the chance to try this crap again on anyone else.. Nuff Said.

  • Merlin

    Here in Oklahoma, it is the law, that unless, and until, the weapon is pointed at YOU, you cannot assume the right of self-defense. The weapon was NOT pointed at the customer, until the customer drew his weapon, and issued a warning. He therefore escalated the situation. He was not law enforcement, and had no "Stand your ground" rights at that point. He was not being threatened. I've been CCW my whole adult life, and fully support the 2nd Amendment. That being said, the laws concerning when to deploy your weapon, are very specific.

    • Ron Dimmer

      The law is wrong,The law puts the CCW holder at a disadvantage, and could verywell get him hurt . IT appears that Oklahoma does not allow a citizen to help his neghibor. because such action mit get someone killed. The law helps the robber. Ron

  • robkarrob

    As a retired Michigan PO I can tell you that no matter what your feelings are regarding whether the customer's reaction was correct or not, I can tell you for certain that customer will question his actions for the rest of his life. He will replay that day time after time and what he should have or could have done differently. Just as each person that leaves comments about this story have their opinions, this customer will question his actions on that day. Sure he took out a bad guy who will never threaten another person again. However only a sociopath could kill without remorse of taking anothers life. Right or wrong he will live it out for the rest of his life.

  • Dave

    Merlin makes a good point, but if the gun is pointed at someone else,( i.e. the waitress, cashier, etc.) isn't that also cause for the armed citizen to intervene? Some times the robbers get what they want and then kill their victims for no apparent reason.You have to assess the situation with your best judgement. This happy ending could be a nightmare if the target is over penetrated, killing Bubba scarfing down a pecan waffle ( my favorite ). The article brings out some great advice and is worthy of thoughtful consideration.

  • Dan

    I think the criticism of the CCW holder in this article is way off base. Like dave said the CCW holder was there not the writer of the article. I understand the caution needed in a situation like this. Sounds to me like the CCW holder did great job and should be awarded a medal. When a criminal is holding a weapon who knows what will happen. How would it have been if the CCW holder did nothing and the criminal pulls the trigger on a patron or employee.

  • Michael

    The CCW Customer is a hero for keeping others in the restaurant from being killed. I hope he reads this to realize he did the right thing and it was heroic. Any time he thinks of the thug that was killed, he should remind himself of others in the restaurant that would have been killed and others that thug would have killed another day. Also think of others that would have been killed if that CCW carrier weren't there with a concealed gun some other day. We are all safer because of one person that carries.

  • Raul

    There is no place in the country where carry is illegal. Its called the constitution. There are bad people in chicago and new york and Massachootis and Kalifornia and the white house that say you can't but you do have the right.

  • Will Carry

    I thought the article made good sense. The man was lucky. As a concealed carry holder you are not obligated to apprehend criminals. Your side arm is to protect you and yours from the threat of imminent harm.
    I do not know what the circumstances were so I can make no judgements. I have little sympathy for the robber who died.

  • CCW is your choice

    un fortunately the law is not in favor of the defendant in what was reported, brandishing a weapon weather it be a firearm, knife, baseball bat, or whatever, even while commiting a crime is only a crime in itself and it is not punishiable by death. Had a shot been fired or a citizen attacked by an assailent with intent to kill that citizen, could the armed citizen then evock his right to defend with leathel force. Now it would seem that the defendant over steped his right by assumeing a hunch that leathel force might be applied when in fact it wasnt,and is subject to imprisonment for murder as well as a wrongfull death lawsuit by the deceesed persons family. This is what you need to know and follow if you want to carry conceiled you are not the police, and you can not take the law into your own hands. Imminate severe injury or death must be applied by an assailent prior to defending your self or on behalf of someone else to justify the use of leathel force as a defence. As sad as this is , and in my own oppinion as wrong as this is this is how it is.

    • Perhaps…

      …you could have been one of the victims who was rounded up and stuffed in a back room. Your comments reveal your profound ignorance about the 2nd amendment. So I suggest you get a copy of the US Constitution and study it. Not coincidentally, you also know nothing about violent criminals, like the two loathsome, bottom-feeders in this robbery, you might not realize your last seconds on earth were the sound of the gunshot to the back of your head. They don't want witnesses to finger them in a lineup. You are a liability to them and they usually talk about what they are going to do with you before they commit the crime. Here is a suggestion: Just thank the armed civilian and STFU.

    • RC in Spartanburg

      Quote from CCW is your choice…."Imminate severe injury or death must be applied by an assailent prior to defending your self or on behalf of someone else to justify the use of leathel force as a defence."

      Are you serious? You really don't make a lot of sense. Hard to defend yourself, or others, after severe injury or death has been applied.

      Some things to think about before posting about laws or any legal matter. Research before posting. Read and edit your posts before posting. Misspelling so many words when you have the help of spell check does nothing for credibility. Just some friendly advice.

      Taking the law into your own hands to defend yourself and others is EXACTLY what concealed carry is all about. Interesting thought isn't it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000915495408 Jeff Stanley

      What state do you live in? Not Texas, that's for sure.

  • Richard

    Champagne!

  • The writer…

    …is obviously NOT a police officer working in a busy city. There is little to no time to think about "what ifs" in a shooting situation if you are caught off guard. When a robbery goes down, it can be very chaotic, lots of movement on the part of the perp, emotions by the victims, rounding up of civilians, etc. When you have a clear shot, take it and end it. Be prepared to follow up if he continues to engage you. Anyone in a shooting is going to be shaken afterward. We need to support this guy and cops who do their jobs. Make sure you include more of the facts before you print your story at the expense of someone, unlike yourself, who has taken a grave risk to protect life and liberty. Credit is due to the civilian shooter who took out an armed thug cleanly.

  • Roger Miccok

    You know what they say, a good 'robber' is a dead 'robber' :)

  • Bakal Boy

    Good job to this Armed Citizen.I'm glad somebody have decided not to put his life and the lives of the other customers in the mercy of the bad guy.If not for this courageous man, who knows if the bad guy would let them live being a witness to their crime.This Good Samaritan inspires me to train harder and carry all the time.God bless to you Mr.Armed Citizen.

  • robert tw krawiec

    The right to self defense is god given, unfortunately government has decided to regulate or eliminate it.

  • sig sauer

    My wife and I live in Columbus, Ohio. This could not happen here because the group that owns the Waffle House here have a "no guns" sign. Therefore, bad guys don't enter!! We do not patronize Waffle House in our area. All of you do you are at risk of being rob or worse.

  • COLT-45

    i have read all the comments above,in my openion the man did a good job ..in my city at 3 different stores,robbers went in on the ladies that worked there,and they were along,robed them then shot them .there was no reason because they had on mask..so with said ,come at me with a gun,you will stand before GOD very shortley..o by the way i live in alabama..so i say get your gun,get your permit, get your training,and stay safe

  • Glock 22

    Bravo to the citizen I dont go ANYWHERE without mine!

  • Johnny Law

    What should of happened is to stand up, shoot the robbers, sit back down and finish your waffles, and then ask questions… I wish we had concealed carry in Illinois!!!!

    • JDH

      Next year…..cost= $300.00 course cost+$150.00 license cost+qualify ammo$$+range qualify cost$$ suggests your right to self defense will cost a minimum of $500.00 plus! Don’t ya just luv Illinois democrats!!

  • RC in Spartanburg

    The law here in SC is obviously in favor of the armed citizen. No charges were brought against him. His life as well as those around him were in grave danger from 2 masked men committing an ARMED robbery. At gunpoint. The "I better wait till he actually shoots someone before I take action" theory is rubbish. Fear for life had already been established when the gun came out and was pointed at anybody in the place.

    One to the chest and one to the head with a 45 for those that want to know. The citizen was and still is highly upset over the incident. I for one wish him well and hope he finds a way to deal with what happened. Very courageous young man.

    For those concealed weapon holders not willing to defend yourself and others who are in danger of grave bodily harm or death then do yourself, and everyone else, a favor and turn your permit in and don't carry.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000915495408 Jeff Stanley

    Dittos. I'm glad he and the bystanders survived his mistake of talking when he had the tactical advantage. When the bad guys' guns are out and one's weapon is cleared from the holster, it's time to aim and press the trigger. Easy to say, hard to do I'm sure. To get the drop on fellows human beings and shoot them down without warning. Heck, urban cowboy that I am, I have trouble squeezing when I'm drawn down on a deer. On the other hand, all the deer is doing is grazing. Mental rehearsal and range time are musts.

  • Shaka

    I was convicted of Bank robbery a few years ago to feed my crack habit, I served my time and found a way to buy a nice piece here in Compton from one of my bro's. I think we need to make guns illegal in here California. I'll always be able to get me a gat. There are too many people out there making life way too risky. I don't think I will rob nobody again but I need my gun here in Compton.
    I am glad no bank customer had a gun when I tried to jack em.

  • zekeiel

    another loser animal criminal dead.no loss to society.too bad the other one didn't get capped.the legal ccw permit holder will no doubt have a civil suit slapped on him by a good ambulance chasing lawyer for the" familblies of da perp becauz hes wuz a gud boy".look at crook county illinois….52k of taxpayers $ on average to patch up gang banging animals to be let back out on the street to terrorize and kill again.pretwinkle can take her 25.00 crook county gun tax and 5 cent per round tax and shove it.

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