Guns & Ammo Network

Collapse bottom bar
News Brief Military & Law Enforcement News

U.S. Army Awards New Contract for Beretta M9

by G&A Online Editors   |  September 17th, 2012 87

Photo by Jeff Rose

The United States Army will continue to use Beretta pistols as soldiers’ service sidearm.

According to a press release issued last week from Beretta, the Army awarded the company with a contract for up to 100,000 Beretta M9 pistols.

“This order reconfirms the US Armed Forces’ interest and support of the M9 pistol,” said Cav. Ugo Gussalli Beretta, president of Beretta Holding, in the press release. “The Beretta M9 remains the standard sidearm of the US Army. These pistols will support American troops in the field for years to come.”

The M9, which has been in production since 1987, will be manufactured at the Beretta USA facility in Maryland. According to the press release, over 600,000 M9 pistols have been manufactured since then, and an initial order of over 4,600 has already been delivered to Beretta.

“We are very proud to continue supplying the M9 pistols to the U.S. Army, and we look forward to the opportunity of working with the Army to improve the current M9 design with many of the existing solutions available to us in the new Model 92A1 and 96A1 pistol families,” said Gabriele de Plano, Beretta USA’s vice president of military marketing and sales.

The M9, a 9mm military adaptation of the Beretta 92FS, features a 15+1-round double-stack magazine, as well as both single- and double-action operation. The M9 also features a mirror profile with ambidextrous thumb safety and decocker, equal slide serrations, symmetrical frame and mag release. It has proved to be an incredibly accurate pistol, with soldiers who may have never even fired a handgun before qualifying with the M9 on 25-yard courses.

  • SamF1911

    While it's nice to know that the Beretta M9 will be made in Maryland I would've rather seen the contract go to Smith & Wesson for the M&P9 9mm pistol.

    • ToryII

      Maryland doesn't deserve any govt contracts.

      • David

        I agree. Maryland, where I live, is one of the least-friendly 2nd Amendment states. (But neither is MA, home of S&W). Berretta should relocate to a gun-friendly state.

        • judge

          If it wasnt for that gov. Contrast, they would have moved already! They want to move out of commie state of md

    • Lee

      Why not the M&P45?

      • square.wave

        The US military wants to maintain NATO compatibility. That means 9mm pistols.

  • Landon Meyer

    At least its made in America. Not a bad pistol, but i think there are better options out there. Glock and the M&P for example.

    • ToryII

      Where is the Glock made ?

      • jiminga

        Glock is made in Smyrna, GA with parts made in Austria.

    • Glenn Marques

      the M9 has institutioal memory and simpler ese of field striping and reasymbly. less parts to lose during the duress of combat ! been there done that keep it simple stupid K.I.S.S.S.

  • Dirty Devan

    It seem to be an interesting gun. I think LA Cops & San Francisco Police should should them. But I don't count on Dirty Harry to use one he can use his a Desert Eagle 44 magnum to replace is old S&W model 29 44 magnum instead.

    • Glenn Marques

      pls enter the year 2012, dirty Harry as u have seemed to of forgotten if a fictional movie character Plus I enjoy being able to slam a 20 round Mag. in rather than using a 6 shooter duh !IMHO ! peace through superior firepower more rounds on targets kills more bad guys do the math.

  • jiminga

    I have read soldiers don't like the Baretta because it lacks stopping power, particularly in colder environments when the enemy is wearing heavy clothing (Afghanistan?). They report often having to use half of a mag to take down a bad guy. I also have read the Marines are switching back to .45's for that very reason.

    • SamF1911

      The standard issue sidearm for the U.S. Marines is still the M9A1 9mm pistol. Only the MEU and other special units in the Marine Corps will get the new Colt M1911A1 Rail Gun, now designated by The Marine Corps as the M45 CQB pistol.

    • square.wave

      Ironically the .45 ACP was previously criticized for poor penetration on heavily clothed enemies in winter conditions. In any case the 9mm does tend to penetrate better than .45.

  • jkrichards93

    I'd rather see our servicemen and women with a harder hitting cartridge like a .40 or .45-the Beretta PX4 Storm is a good versatile platform-and in my opinion would be perfect.

    • Ken Ng

      This is true. But there is some effort to standardize with NATO in use with 9mm.

      There's also the costs involved. 9mm is cheapest. They should look at mothballing Hague conventions in regards to ball ammo vs hollowpoint.

  • asapmil

    I view this as a disaster. I had to put up with the miserable M-9 for the last half of my military career, and now my son in the Army is stuck with that piece of crap. I was an Army Ordnance officer and was present in the 1980's when the pistols were being evaluated. The Sig 226 actually did much better in the tests. The decision to buy the Beretta was a political one. A downsized Sig was later adopted by the Army as the compact M-11 for aviators, general officers and CID agents. A better choice would be the Sig Sauer, the S&W M&P, and the FNH, which are all produced in the US. The Glock is an excellent pistol (I currently carry one in Afghanistan), but was never considered by the military since it lacks a manual safety and therefore did not meet the specifications.

    • MAX

      I disagree respectfully. Since you are a veteran I realize that your experience with the pistol probably far outweighs mine.

      Saying that, I have never had a problem with the 9x19mm with correct +P+ loads and expanding semi jacketed hollow points. All of my tests have indicated that in a man sized target, nothing is more damaging in terms of cavitative wound causing capability. I have found that the round is not only the most nasty on the other end, but is relatively mild on mine.

      Also, my Italian M92fs (yes, that is right. I got one before they were popular. I felt like a total hipster when the military adopted it) is a beautiful sidearm. I own numerous handguns, including SIG, S&W, Glocks, and FNH in 9mm, and I have found that it is a fantastic weapon in its class. While I would personally take a Glock into combat, the 92 is not far behind. The pistol is controllable, comfortable, has perfect reliability, and is more accurate than I am in any scenario where I will be using it.

      While I realize that my opinions do not carry as much weight as those who have formed theirs on the battlefield, I ask that my reasoning be considered.

      • MAX

        Sorry. More info. My tests were conducted without protective garments. I would suggest a different round if the enemy is clothed in anything heavier than a winter jacket.

      • Wolvie


        Quick question…

        If you were only able to use standard pressure, FMJ rounds…would you have the same opinion?

        Remember, military loadout is ONLY standard pressure, non-expanding, FMJ rounds.

        Given this very real scenario, which would you want to have hanging on your side?

        • 2311 MOS

          Excellent point Wolvie! Since you can't use expanding (hollow point) ammo and are restricted to standard-pressure rounds, why on earth would someone choose a 9mm over a .40 or .45? Tactically speaking, I'd rather have to hit someone once with .45 ball than have to hit him three times with 9mm ball.

    • Roger

      I agree,Sig 226 is a great and wonderful gun, I carried one for many years as a city police afficer. I retired and became a county deputy assigned to courts we carried a Glock 22,40 it was a good gun but not a "fine" as the Sig 226. Many depts still carry the Sig, as do specialized military units. The Sig costs more the the Glock even under govt. contract. So…. more departements carry the Glock. Tests were best for the Sig. The Berretta I don't know much about.

  • Ken del valle

    First: The pistol is not the primary weapon.
    Second: The Beretta is fairly dumy proof.
    Third: The 9mm is easier for the untrained to shoot.
    Fourth: It is carried in a service holster.
    Fifth: Okay for women soldiers.
    Sixth: If you are a civilian you can load it with better cartridges.
    Seventh: Two hits with an easy to shoot 9mm Is better than one miss with a .45.
    Eigth: 18 round Magar after market magazines.
    Ninth: Better than a club or a brick.

    The Beretta is a good pistol at the lowest common denominator of pistols. It shoots when you pull the trigger!

    I love the 1911's but they run dry too fast.

    Me? I like high cap .45's like the XD's or XD-M, Kimber Pro 10, Glock 21 etc.

    Combat: For me the XF .45 Tactical

    • mike

      I swore by .45's for decades. Now I'm a .40 fan

    • Anishinabi

      I remember when police agencies were being criticised for pumping 14 rounds into a perp, usually with a 9mm Glock. That is one reason most agencies, like state police for example use .40 cal SIG weapons now. If you can't stop a meth head with a 9mm, you can't stop an Afghan infiltrator. And do not discount the sidearm. In many situations that is all a GI has at the moment to save his life. Better to go with a SIG 220 or equal. In spite of regulations, I know some Army types that took their personal .40 or .45 weapons along.

    • Zpayne

      Actually, mecgar manufactures factory mags for sig, beretta, and a few other companies. I wouldn't consider them aftermarket

  • j brownning

    g back to the 1911a1 a real man stopper

    • mike

      With only 7 shots though. 12, .40 rounds would suffice.

  • Gustav CW3/USA

    The Beretta M9 has a proven history of reliability.

    The 9mm is the problem. As FN researchers said, "the 9mm is lacking in power and a technological dead-end". Thats why you dont see HK MP5 anymore in combat areas, only indig translators carry them. Even us pilots carry M4 on board helos.

    LAPD and LA Sheriff both use Beretta M9. But, they don't really like guns, do they?

  • Marine Combat Instr.

    I'm sorry to say but this article is really depressing. I've served with this pistol in the Marines, competed with it, and had to teach new and old shooters with it.
    -Its big disappointment is the caliber by far, but we switched to 9mm in 1985 to become best "Ally buddies" with Nato during the Cold war Scene(Amazing how most Americans don't even remember this).
    -Also the Military's common M9 is the 92F series, F standing for fixed sights(If not other things), so many of the pistols that I had to teach people with or train with were about 1-2Feet off at 25yds! Not something I hold dear to my heart.
    -The American Military(and citizens for that matter) should not be concerned with Nato(Nobody else is!) and besides how many conflicts have you seen major numbers of Nato troops In? Americans have been the targets out on the shooting range, and I had to give last rights to too many already from these last wars. Lets do whats right for our Brothers(sisters) in arms!
    -The main reason the Beretta company was picked up and continued with, was because they made the most pistols for the least amount of government Mula.

    Last thought; I like to shoot the Beretta, Its fun little target gun to use. But its NOT what I can count on to stop those that try to kill me and my fellow Americans. Sometimes its better to find what works and not what you can buy with "Uncle Sam's" pocket change.
    God bless.

    • Waywardson

      The M9 is a Big gun to carry while the S&W Sig and Glock are lighter smaller and most hold as much ammo. The 9mm is simply not powerful enough. While us civilians can use Defensive ammo, The Military is stuck with ball ammo.
      The Beretta won the contract because of Politics not because it was the best gun. The .45 worked for the U.S. for along time.

    • Al

      So what gun in the best for the combat then if you are saying the berreta is not enough?

  • AJP

    They should consider changing to the .40 S&W caliber. It would involve a retrofit instead of replacement because the Model 96 has an identical lower to the Model 92/M9. It's a matter of switching out the barrel, slide and magazine which should be much cheaper than replacing all of the current weapons. The Model 96 in .40 S&W holds 11 rounds of .40 versus the Model 92/M9 holding 15 of 9mm and those 11 have a lot more punch even with TC bullets. I have both a 92FS and a 96 and, if there's any difference in accuracy, I would give a slight edge to the 96.

    • Anishinabi

      My son works in a range that rents handguns. They find the frames of the .40 Berettas (and the M&P) are developing stress fractures prematurely.

      If you buy a .40, buy one that is designed for .40 or .357 sig initiallly, not one adapted for it.

  • John O

    I love my 92F! The accuracy is great and reliability is tops. I have never had combat experience, but I don't think this would be a bad choice. A nice 1911 like my Sig Scorpion in .45 ACP would be preferable, but a Sig P220 is never a bad choice either. In the end, a handgun is not the best selection if a rifle is near by.

  • Anishinabi

    I would rather see our military carry SIG pistols. Follow the money. The trail should be visible now that the Beretta has been deployed a few years. Who of the selecting officers now work for Beretta?

    Also,I hate to see us downgrade our soldiers to 9 mm ball ammo. And the Beretta 92 is not fit for higher calibers, anyway.

  • Richard

    This weapon is a POS piece of equipment ! There would be so many other ( and much better ) options as a pistol, made in the US, why on earth do they stick with this and even renew their contract?

    • Gunpilot

      It's all politics. Who cares what is best for the troops? Go back to the .45.

  • Jason I. Agee

    Ruger 96 would be a great choice.

  • Bennett

    The m9 is a hunk of crap. We, the soldiers, need something with a little more stopping power. Only recently have they allowed us to even use hollow points, after the incident at ft hood with major hasan. Yes, the gun is built well and functions well and is very accurate, but it just doesn't have the stopping power that is needed.

    • SamF1911

      What, hollow point ammo? Are you saying regular U.S. Army units are using JHP ammo? What unit are you with that allows JHP ammo?

      • Wolvie

        Sam, it's an upgrade perk in Call of Duty apparently…

        • SamF1911

          Wolvie, long time no see. "Call of Duty" you say, that would explain why I've never heard about it. Kids these days, I tell ya.

          • Wolvie

            I've been here…but I think you were distracted while you were yelling at those kids to get off your lawn!

            And I had nothing to do with that. And I didn't pay them. And I didn't record it and upload it to YouTube.

          • SamF1911

            Hey….all this time it was you with the flaming bags of dog poop! That cuts it Wolvie! Now where did I put that M18A1 Claymore mine?

    • Andrew

      In the Air Force as Security Forces we carried hollow point ammo state side since we functioned primarily as law enforcement.
      When we deployed though, we got normal FMJs.

  • daniel

    I think people need to realize this is only a secondary weapon not a primary and it is a good pistol.

  • Dallas

    I was really hoping to swap to something else. Im an MP in the army and use mine. Its heavy, fires an ineffective round, magazines are garbage and cause stove piping ALOT, and jams from dust and dirt really easily.

    • old vet

      Yes, the M9 is one big assed 9MM pistol. If you follow most of these comments, everything out there can malfunction because all handguns are a machine and machines can fail. All the troops can hope for is that the higher ups will supply them with the best.

  • DChristian

    Had the pleasure of shooting some 10mm stuff. That should stop anyone no matter how dedicated or hopped up.

  • Bruce Benfiel

    There is no finer pistol on the planet. My wife has 2 G-17's & I have 2 92FS'. (Italian) I bought some practice ammo, made by GA. ARMS which is considered to be reliable. The Glocks stove piped numerous times. I have never had a jam with the Beretta's. When TSHTF you may not be able to get your hands on a box of Federal. I also hate the fact the fact it's not a true U.S. Brand. Smith & Wesson was one of the first gun makers to join the Clinton BAN-WAGON.
    I sold my beautiful 686 and never looked back. S&W still does not voice their opposition as does Ruger, Beretta etc…

    • John

      GA Arms is reused brass w/ dirtest powder charge filled at the min.

  • bhp9

    I have read soldiers don't like the Baretta because it lacks stopping power, particularly in colder environments when the enemy is wearing heavy clothing (Afghanistan?). They report often having to use half of a mag to take down a bad guy. I also have read the Marines are switching back to .45's for that very reason.

    Read more:

    Fact: After WWII the Neanderthals at the U.S. military actually got around to testing the .45acp v/s the 9×19. The .45 actually bounced off of a WWII G.I. Helmet at a scant 35 yards. See the book "The Ingles Diamond". The .9×19 penetrated the helmet at an astonishing 125 yards. The 9×19 shoots flatter enabling more hits at 100 meters. The 9×19 carries more ammo. 9×19 ammo is lighter to carry so you can carry twice as much v/s the .45 acp. Pigs shot by Pistolero magazine showed more shock and died just as quickly as those shot with the .45acp. My own testing and hunting experiences mirrored Pistoleros findings in the 1980's.

  • bhp9

    More real life experiences with the .45acp v/s the 9×19: I used the .45acp on deer and it was a complete failure with the lighter weight bullets. It did kill at ranges under 15 yards with the 230 grain bullets but beyond that the slow moving low penetrating round runs out of steam too quickly. It is very difficult to hit anything with it at real hunting ranges and combat ranges, read that at up to 100 yards. The 9×19 is superior in velocity, flat trajectory, penetration and in most cases accuracy as well because it is a mild recoil. The heavier the recoil the less well most normal humans can shoot a weapon with any kind of consistent accuracy no matter how inherently accurate the caliber really is. The .45 acp myth is one of the greatest hoaxes and the most long lasting one that was ever hoodwinked on the shooting public. My own penetration tests and hunting experiences proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt. As an assault weapon the 9×19 is superior, the 45acp will only get you killed.

    • Michael B

      Another bad post.

      Deer aren’t human.

      Just because you hunt, doesn’t mean you hunt humans.

      .45 is far more effective in cqb than 9mm. It’s called stopping power (transfer of energy), on a human; not a steer, or a deer, or whichever animal you decide to use next as your fallacy as an argument for combat.

      Wanna know what will get you killed? Listening to this idiot spout off on crap he doesn’t know anything about.

  • bhp9

    The gun the U.S. should have adopted in the U.S. trials was the Star model 28/30. Because it was made in Spain it was not given serious consideration. Little did the incompetents that tested the various weapons know that it was perhaps the most rugged and most accurate military pistol every made. One shooting range reported that two of the rental Star model 30's went an astonishing 180,000 rounds with no parts breakage or wear out. The original U.S. military 1911 was only designed to last less than 20,000 rounds. The Star was all steel, it did not have the Beretta aluminum frame nor does it have an open top slide like the Beretta does which lets in dust and mud. The Stars enclosed slide and all steel frame were two of the factors that made it so rugged, reliable and long lasting.

    • Wolvie

      Ah, looks who is back spamming the forums again…

  • asapmil

    There are a lot of good comments above. However, my experience with the M-9 in the military is the same as Dallas's comments (the Army MP). When a Beretta is a pampered civilian gun it works fine. When you put it in a field environment, it does not hold up well, especially the fragile magazines. I also agree with Marine Combat Intstr. that the average M-9 shoots off "point-of-aim", and is not accurate. Prior to the M-9 I could usually pick up a 1911 off the rack and shoot a perfect 40 out of 40 qualification. I never could with the M-9 since I always had to figure out how far off it was first, then adjust. Parts wear and breakage is about double what it was for the 1911 too. Once an M-9 is worn daily in the field, the finish quickly wears off and it looks like a kids shiny, nickle-plated cap gun.
    As I recall back when it was adopted, it was a few dollars less per gun that the winning pistol, the Sig Sauer. At the time we also wanted to station cruise missiles on the Italian Island of Lampedusa, so we threw a contract to an Italian company to sweeten the political pot.

  • Wolvie

    The point that is missed over and over again is that people constantly compare civilian use of a firearm to military use. Additionally, people use the, "I have a friend, who had a brother, who worked with a guy who said…", form of argument to make a point. That has the same value as, "I read on the Internet that…"

    There are several very real, undisputed points regarding the Beretta:
    1) It is a relatively soft shooter.
    2) It is capable of better than minimum combat accuracy.
    3) it has shown to have better than adequate reliability.
    4) The large grip circumference is a problem for shooters with short fingers/small hands.
    5) Like the 1911, some magazines are of questionable reliability.
    6) The pistol itself is very large in size and weight.

    There are also some indisputable facts about the 9mm:
    1) It is the most popular handgun round in the world.
    2) It has been and continues to be used by many police departments in the country.
    3) in FMJ standard pressure loadings, it was found to be an unreliable stopper. This was evidenced by the ammo trials in the early 1900's, battlefield evidence of wounds from both WWII & WWII and by the fact that there are no major police or security forces in this country that would even consider using only FMJ ammunition.
    4) Advances in design and manufacturing technology make it a very suitable civilian and police defensive round…but not in it's FMJ loading.
    5) All advances in design for the 9mm have also been applied to the larger bore calibers as well.

    Personally, I like the Beretta, but i would never consider carrying one. The size and balance do not appeal to me. Also, I wouldn't choose one to issue as I believe there are much better choices. One of the issues that was under consideration when looking to replace the 1911 was consideration of women shooters and those with smaller hands. While the step down in caliber might address this issue…the physical grip size is much larger that the 1911 they were looking to improve upon.

    A 9mm, using modern expanding ammo, in a platform that is slim enough for the individual to grip comfortably while still retaining a higher magazine capacity is a very good choice for civilian, police and military applications.

    A 9mm, using standard pressure FMJ, in a platform that is too large and thick for an individual to grip comfortably, regardless of capacity is a ver poor choice for civilian, police and military applications.

  • Bruce Benfiel

    Most of the Beretta's, or any other service pistol will have had many rounds down the tube. This will cause some inaccuracy. Someone above said it best," a sidearm is the 2nd choice." Does anyone know why the "AK" is the #1 combat rifle? Answer = pure slop! There is room around the bolt to empty dust and dirt, as with the M9. All weapons with tight tolerances are more likely to jam because of debris. I have mini-14's rather than black rifles for that very reason. No, not as accurate, just reliable. The down side is parts during a combat situation. there will be a lot more AR's to be had than minis. Back to the topic. To maintain accuracy for longer periods, I have been told that Glocks & Baby Eagles have octagonal rifling and they tend to increase in accuracy with use, to a point. I do not know if that is true or not. FMJ rounds have to be used for reliable feeding. If penetration is the problem, then FN's 5.7×28 will punch through a Kevlar helmet @ 100 yds. & is lethal @ 200 +.

    • Andrew

      Are you seriously assuming the mini-14 is more reliable than an AR? Yeah maybe if they issue the first iteration of the M16 with the wrong gun powder in the cartridges as well as not issuing cleaning kits and saying it is self cleaning. So much stupid was passed down by superiors that led to the deaths of many GI’s because of that and of course damaged the reputation of a extremely reliable and effective firearm that has the longest service life as the main battle rifle in the US military.
      There are of course some what superior models of rifles out there today, but the M4/M16A4 isn’t that unreliable and really necessary to replace with what is essentially a same caliber rifle and no real innovative change. There are some good candidates out there though like the ACR-160, Tavor, and M416.

  • Bruce Benfiel

    Correction; it is called POLYGONAL Rifling by Magnum Research. It is used only on the pistols from IMI (Israeli Military Industries). Glocks still use it. I think most of their parts are still made in Austria and shipped to GA. for assembly. Kahr Arms purchased Magnum Research; cheaper parts. However, they're still an all steel pistol.

  • bhp9

    Another myth is that the bigger the diameter bullet the more deadly it is. The difference between the diameter of the 9mm and the .45 is a scant 1/10 of an inch yet the myth is that the bigger .45 acp will knock people down, or spin them around like a top or make them disappear in a red puff of mist. Can you believe adults believe in such fairy tails?

    Agnes Herbert who hunted big game in the Caucus's, in Africa and in Alaska in the early 1900's used both a .45 cal. double barrel elephant rifle and a bolt action Mannlicher in 6.5mm. She stated many times she found no difference in killing power between the .26 caliber and the .45 caliber rifles she used. A well placed shot killed period. Many old time African Hunters were killed because their slow moving large diameter bullets never penetrated deep enough to stop a charge. Something the big bore boys that have been beating the big bore drums for years conveniently ignore. Yet when the smaller caliber rifle fails it is immediately jumped on as being totally anemic.

    • Michael B

      Obviously you know nothing about the transfer of energy. Bigger rounds do in fact have more stopping power if the velocity is equal. In regards to rifle vs pistol you are comparing two completely separate jobs, which is a logical fallacy (apples to oranges). One is cqb, the other engages in a variety of ranges. Rifles have the luxury of allowing someone to die from a long distance– they’re not likely running several hundred meters to get you after being shot.

      So when you come back with science instead of your claims of debunking myths, then comment on how small calibers somehow are as effective in a pistol.

  • bhp9

    Several years ago in Massillon, Ohio an aggressive Cop was shot by a motorist in the buttocks with a .30 tokarev. Now that's a caliber even smaller than the 9mm but its super high velocity caused the bullet to glance upwards through the body after hitting bone and then it broke apart in the torso like a grenade killing the officer instantly. Again this is all lost on the big bore boys that ignore any lethality that the small bore guns exhibit. In the famous turn of the century Thompson tests the .30 Luger actually killed 1,200 pound steers with full metal jacketed bullets more quickly than did the slower moving .45 cal. revolver cartridges that were also tested, some with expanding bullets that did indeed expand. Again there was no superiority shown with the bigger calibers tested.

    • Michael B

      Another fallacy. You keep posting on here using poor evidence, or stories about “this one time”, and worse you are now using killing power in place of stopping power. If you shoot someone enough times, they’re probably going to die regardless of what caliber. Your argument is that a 9mm is somehow as effective as a .45 because the guy dies. Yeah you’re right, he will die, but in cqb, which is what the argument is about, you want that bad guy to die as far away from you as possible, not up close in your face giving him a shot at your throat before he expires, get it?

      You still have no idea of what you are talking about and because you spit out garbage ideas that potentially endanger our troops, and I am calling you out.

      Of course a fmj .30 luger would kill a steer more quickly than a .45; that is a big animal and penetration is needed. Guess what? Steers are not humans.

      Again you are comparing apples to oranges.

  • old vet

    Why are our forces handcuffed with fmj ammo in any caliber when we are up against thugs using IEDs and any other means to kill and maim? We need to trash the Hague, and any other rules. The tech is there to make the 9mm a real killer, let's use it. Also anything you can do to make a 9mm better will make the 40 or 45 even better. If we are able to justify Drone Strikes, which not only take out the target, but everyone else at the party, we should have no problem with better bullets.

  • Guest

    I carried a M9 in AFG for a year. you can spout statics, stories, all you want. Fact is, the M9 does not instill confidence. Sure, it is a secondary weapon. But in war, when it hits the fan, that secondary just may become your primary.
    Oh, worked closely with the CF. Saw a lot of HKs, SIGs, a few Glocks in different countries armories. The USA is the only ones carrying the M9.

  • asapmil

    This contract should have been for the M-11, which is a compact Sig Sauer already in the Army system. Standard mags hold 2 rounds less than the M-9, but that could be easily fixed by getting "+2 or +4" extended mags for guys like the pilots, and the CID agents could stick with the standard sized mags for concealability. Even since retiring from the Army, I still see nothing good about the M-9. I worked as a mentor at Camp Taji, Iraq in 2007 at a joint training mission. I was given a Glock 19, qualified with it every 60 days, and got to like it. The military instructors there (Army, Marine and AF) were stuck with M-9's and were very envious of our Glocks, as well as envy for the elderly Browning Hi Powers carried by our Australian staff and a British guest instructor. These were all senior NCO's and Officers, and nobody liked the M-9.

  • wibbys1

    I have owned/own a lot of pistols and I have to side with the Beretta m9. Trustworthy, accurate and always dependable.
    Did you.all see the gun tv show when they asked the maker of top end .45 1911's what gun he would own if he could have only one? He replied immediately–Beretta! the host asked why. He said because they always work.

  • chris

    I dont understand why people still try to relate .45 to 9mm in the fact that a 45 only holds 7 rounds… duty 45 holds 7 rounds anymore…glock,hk,springfield, fnp, all hold a minimum of 12, this isnt world war two the 1911 isnt a the main choice for duty 45 except special operations who choose that sidearm. The 9mm is a poor choice and thats just my opnion and soldiers i talk too

    • Andrew

      There have been larger capacity improvements. The 1911 however is a century old design and really is obsolete. It is certainly a beautiful gun, but it certainly cannot hold up to the reliability standards of today. There are many .45 designs that are superior and carry more than 7+1 and 9mm guns have even greater capacity. The standard today seems to be 17+1 or more for a 9mm gun.

  • Charles

    There are half a dozen ballistic experts on this forum. The reason the military uses full metal jacket rounds is because the enemy has a propensity to take cover when being shot at. Jacketed hollow points can sometimes be stopped by moderate cover. The penetration of FMJ rounds far out weights any expansion of JHP rounds. IMHO.

    • John

      NO, FMJ rounds ar cheap 2 make.

    • Michael Leaf

      The reason why the military uses FMJ is due to the Hague convention that outlawed use of expanding bullets in warfare. The Hague was originally signed in 1899 and in section IV,3 it states:
      “Declaration concerning the Prohibition of the Use of Bullets which can Easily Expand or Change their Form inside the Human Body such as Bullets with a Hard Covering which does not Completely Cover the Core, or containing Indentations
      This declaration states that, in any war between signatory powers, the parties will abstain from using “bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body.” Ratified by all major powers, except the United States.”
      In 1907 the Hague was signed again and the United States then signed and ratified Section IV Article 23 which states:”In addition to the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially forbidden –

      To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;”

      Don’t believe me, research for yourself…

      • Riain S

        Actually the US never signed Sec IV, Art 3 of the 1899 convention. We did sign on to the 1907 Hague convention, which forbids:
        “(e) To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering”
        Annex to the Convention: Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land – Section II : Hostilities – Chapter I : Means of injuring the enemy, sieges, and bombardments – Regulations: Art. 23.
        As you can see, that’s a fairly vague prohibition and certainly doesn’t ban hollowpoints (you could make an argument that hollowpoints, by increasing lethality, actually decrease suffering).
        The reason militaries around the world use FMJs instead of hollowpoints is because they’re cheap, easy to manufacture and are less likely to cause jamming in full auto weapons. Also, don’t forget that the SMG has largely gone the way of the Dodo, and pistols are generally seen as secondary weapons for officers, not actual battle weapons.

  • Jason

    I've found there's very little difference in the feel/kick of the 9mm and the 40s&w, that is, if it's all about rapid fire and staying on target why not upgrade to the 40s&w, very, very similar IMHO while the 40 has more stopping power. I guess I understand why the US Military is staying with the berreta but law enforcement should move to the 40s&w.

  • idahoguy101

    I don't care whether the military issues M9's from Beretta or the M11 from SIG. I do wish they'd replace the FMJ ammo with a JHP plus P 9mm. That'd improve performance! But realistically the M9 is being replaced in actual use by the M4 Carbine.

  • Old MP

    Okay, what I have read was very interesting. I was a MP for 22+ years and have carried both the 1911 and the M9, I was in the transition phase when the female MP's were "qualifying' with the 38 and the male Soldiers used the 1911 and we had to also qualify with the M9. A good 1911 was accurate, but there was not many 1911's that were good by that time, most had extensive wear and were very unreliable. I remember a slide flying off a weapon as it was released. Many MP Soldiers falied thier qualification. From experience, it is much easier to teach a Soldier/Officer to fire the M9 and qualify. They jump less, get more comfortable and seem to stay on target better with 9mm ammo. They save money, less rounds to qualify with more GO's on qualification and the M9 round is cheaper. This should allow more "shooting time" (notice I said should) and practice is the most important factor when preparing someone for combat or law enforcement. Remember, there is a budget and ammo allocations. Also, a Soldier's primary weapon is his rifle/carbine. Pray and spray in a combat environment is a common tactic.

  • Sprout

    My Glock 21 SF…45ACP with 13 in the mag and 1 in the chamber…it is my Sheriff's Office primary sidearm and ultra reliable. I'm a full time LEO and believer in the stopping power of the .45 on the human body. I don't really care if it can't stop an elephant, that's comparing apples to oranges. It will stop a human…..quickly.

  • fred266

    Don't wait till the CC laws change in your State!.

  • Claudio Colleoni

    Beretta U.S.A. Reliability and Durability Statistics for the Beretta 9mm Pistol

    • The average reliability of all M9 pistols tested at Beretta U.S.A. is 17,500 rounds without a stoppage.
    • During one test of twelve pistols fired at Beretta U.S.A. before Army supervision, Beretta-made M9 pistols shot 168,000 rounds without a single malfunction.
    • The Beretta 9mm pistol was the most reliable of all pistols tested in the 1984 competition which resulted in the award of the M9 contract to Beretta.
    • Two-thirds of all M9 pistols endurance tested at Beretta U.S.A. fired 5,000 rounds without a single mal function or, at most, with only one malfunction.
    • The average durability of Beretta M9 slides is over 35,000 rounds, the point at which U.S. Army testing ceases.
    • The average durability of M9 frames is over 30,000 rounds. The average durability of M9 locking blocks is 22,000 rounds.

    • Alex Blackburn

      Then explain to me why my beretta jammed twice while at the range doing my annual qualification so I can carry my gun for base security, these berettas are junk, or at least from my perspective they are

      • Michael B

        Agreed, Alex. I know anecdotal evidence is not a good argument, but I haven’t met a person who likes these pieces of junk. I trained for a long time to be sf, and I don’t know a single high speed guy who used, or liked these.

        There were so many better alternatives; this to me is just another example of corruption amongst the brass.

  • Sproto

    Why would they use the same old M9 when they could have just switched to the new PX4 Storms?

    • Andrew

      Probably due to a complete parts change and from what I understand the Px4 Storm is made in Italy. I know mine was, and the M9 for the military is produced in the states. Probably would cost more for Beretta and the US military in the short term than in the long term because the Px4 Storm is suppose to be the successor to the M9 and from what I can tell it is a superior pistol. From what I’ve heard it also out performs all other pistols in the tests by the military but then again these are various internet sources so I can’t reliably back that up so take that as a grain of salt.
      The only reason why I could support a higher caliber change is for more potential penetration over the 9mm as well. I think the .45 acp is so overrated and in America “bigger is better” seems to be the mantra in a lot of the things we buy from our cars to our guns. Sometimes our egos and stubbornness gets the better of us.

back to top