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House Votes to Limit Department of Homeland Security Ammo Purchases

by G&A Online Editors   |  June 6th, 2013 35

reloading_calibers_FThe Department of Homeland Security’s massive ammunition stockpiling has been the source of many a conspiracy theory in the wake of one of the largest ammo droughts in U.S. history.

Now, the DHS is being ordered to cease the spending unless the department can justify it.

Examiner.com reports the U.S. House of Representatives voted Wednesday evening to bar the DHS from stockpiling more ammo until DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano can explain to Congress the department’s need for the cache, reportedly about 1.6 billion rounds.

“Given this large purchase, the American people and members of Congress rightfully had concerns and questions,” said Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., who sponsored the amendment to the DHS’ 2014 budget, which passed 234-192. “This is a responsible amendment which ensures that Congress and the American people are aware of the necessity and the cost of ammunition prior to entering into new contracts for procurement.”

According to a Fox News report, the amendment will keep the DHS from purchasing anymore ammo until it submits a comprehensive report on its spending and ammo usage to Congress.

Napolitano has so far refused to explain the DHS’ logic in purchasing so much ammo—along with contracts for $900,000 worth of “replacement parts” with SIG Sauer and Heckler & Koch, $143,000 worth of submachine guns from H&K, and 2,717 “mine-resistant protected” vehicles, information made public by Federal Business Opportunities.

However, according to Fox News, DHS procurement officer Nick Nayak said during an April House oversight subcommittee hearing the DHS planned on purchasing 750 million rounds for basic and advanced federal law enforcement training over the next five years. The rest, Nayak said, would be appropriated to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which according to Fox, requested the following in 2012: 450 million .40-caliber duty rounds; 40 million rifle rounds per year, totaling 200 million rounds over five years; 176,000 rifle rounds as part of a separate contract; and 25,000 blanks.

It’s concerning—if not downright frightening—to think of reasons the DHS could possibly have to spend so much of our tax dollars on such a vast arsenal when we’re having trouble arming ourselves. It would be fascinating if it weren’t so horrifying.

Hopefully our questions will be answered in due time, and we pray the rationale is not as sinister as some imagine it to be.

Think this recent wave of gun control is tough? See how President Obama’s proposals compare to 1994.

  • Smootchie

    The Border Patrol alone has over 20k Agents that have to qualify 4 times a year (72 rounds per pistol, 50 per rifle) and some Agents have to qualify with 2 pistols ( Over 700k rounds a year). This isn’t even counting practice ammo of which the average agent will go through to maintain proficiency. Toss in all the other agencies under the DHS banner and you have about 20 million pistol rounds alone. Now take into account that these are multi year contracts filled over time and it starts to make sense.

    • Rifleman

      You’re badly mistaken. (1) The government doesn’t buy practice ammo – only training and qualification. Once you’re out of initial training, you only
      get qualification ammo. (2) Even allowing for your generous estimates (700,000
      rounds), DHS is buying 2,285 TIMES as much ammo as you say they need (1.6
      billion rounds). Please explain that. (3) Besides ammo for standard issue guns,
      they’re buying calibers like 7.62×39 (Russian AK-47 ammo), .410 shotshell, .357
      Magnum and .30-30. No DHS agencies are issued guns in these calibers.

      • Smootchie

        Wrong they do issue practice ammo about 75 rounds a quarter, so total out about 1.4 million a year for the border patrol alone. of course that is being phased out now because of stuff like this.

        During initial training the number of rounds expended during 4-6 months of training is easily 72 a day per agent.

        The rounds I accounted for are only for the Border Patrol.. i never mentioned the TSA , ICE, HSI, FPS etc… As far as Russian ammo and the rest ..I have never any factual data indicating that these calibers are bought in any meaningful qualtity.

        • Tabitha Martin

          As a Corrections Officer, i was required to recertify once per year. 60 rounds of .38, 20 rounds of .223, and 10 rounds of 12 guage. ONCE PER YEAR!!! Your 78 rounds per day for several months is pure bullshit. And if it isent, then it is a gross, abusive, criminal waste of resources and taxpayers dollars.

          • Smootchie

            A corrections officer is NOT an LEO.. get back to your cage. I am a Fire Arms instructor in a Federal LEO Agency. It is EXACTLY as I have stated and still we have people who cant shoot worth a damn. 72 rounds of .40 4 times a year. Don’t come up with straw-man bullshit to justify your position… or learn to read.

          • Tabitha Martin

            You said “during initial training the number of rounds expended during 4-6 months of training is easily 72 a day per agent”. Thats a pretty big difference from 72 rounds, 4 times a year. So which is it? Every day for 4-6 months, like you originally said. Or only 4 times per year?

          • DV123

            Seems pretty clear to me. They use roughly 72 rounds per day during initial training courses to become an agent. Then are required to qualify four times a year shooting 72 rounds each time. My CPL course was also taught by a federal agent and he said he was issued sufficient ammunition to cover all the practice range time he could want. He had boxes of hollow point ammunition issued for practice, the exact same as he would use on duty, so that he was always firing the same round through his firearm whether at the range or in a high stress situation.

          • chfnelson

            Using hollow point for practice is waste. It does not matter if you use round nose lead for training, the idea is being familiar with your weapon.

          • Smootchie

            tabitha read DV123 post . He understood my post perfectly.

          • Terry Malone

            Amen.

    • Terry Malone

      All B.S.

      • Smootchie

        Cant argue antilogic with plain ole facts. You win. Now run along and get distracted from the real problems with these silly scams.

    • Steve Whitten

      Well, yes except, ya know that the entire war effort, Iraq and Afghanistan together, has not expended even a million rounds in ten years…….so how does several BILLION rounds for DHS, IRS and other alphabet agencies make sense?

      • Smootchie

        you actually think they get anywhere near several billion rounds from any given contract? there is no manufacturer that can supply several billion rounds of a single caliber and bullet type.

        The military has not expended a million rounds in ten years is unbelievable. If this is true they are not counting qualifications… only rounds fired in battle.

        • Steve Whitten

          To break it down a bit-of 1.5 million military (numbers rounded); about half are Navy and Air Force-leaves 750,000-half of those are rear-echelon and support, leaving 375,000 to provide boots on the ground. (well on the way to the roughly 70,000 actually in Iraq and Afghanistan, See?) Of that number, relatively few ever fire a rifle-in 20 years, I fired only 25 rounds and that was boot camp. Once you start with real world numbers……….

          • Smootchie

            I am prior military. I fired alot more than 25 rounds. Not everybody was support. Believe what you want, it wont change the facts.

  • TNUGA

    This Examiner article quoted appears to be in error when it says, “… the U.S. House of Representatives voted Wednesday evening to bar the DHS from stockpiling more ammo until DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano can explain to Congress the department’s need for the cache, reportedly about 1.6 billion rounds.””

    The amendment, H.AMDT.123 to H.R 2217 only requires that DHS file a report in FY 2015 explaining and justifying their planned purchases before spending any funds for ammo in FY 2015.
    It has no effect on contracts already in place and has no effect on FY 2014. Look it up and read the amendment for yourself! Much ado about nothing!

  • Roy

    It’s worth mentioning that those 2,717 mine resistant vehicles that were purchased were actually for the Marines, not DHS. Please stop disseminating myths and conspiracy theories.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks to INFOWARS and ALEX JONES for getting this noticed. The same guy who’s been telling you for 14yrs that the Government spys on you thru your phone, computer, car and even your new smart appliances. Has once again been proven Conspiracy FACT by the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

    • Dialogos68

      Can you believe that there are libtards who vote this comment down? Clueless “Low information” “pseudo-intellectual” libs….

  • Woody

    The human mammal is a rather violent species isn’t it ! There are things like bean bag shotgun shells too , mace, tazers, water cannons . I have known many officers that told me they never even needed to draw their guns and most go through their careers never shooting anyone . But I guess there is that one time we need a million dollars worth of ammo that we need for that one crazy person that was put on the street instead of in a mental hospital that we now call the streets !

  • Steve
  • Dialogos68

    While POTUS parties away, the media hides his globalist police state agenda and massive Chicago mob corruption. While he centralizes government power for special interests (Federal Reserve-Goldman Sachs and Monsanto), the liberal media STILL sells him as a caring soul that works for the common man. Amazing!!!! Does this not sound like “Socialist” N@zi Germany in the 1930s? While administering massive spying on citizens, the leader of the German “Socialist” Party (also known as Hitler) pushed the government and citizens to spy on each other too(like Big Sis), claimed there were conspiracies against the government (right wingers), used false flags (Fast&Furious), used race and class warfare to get elected and divide the people(the Tea Party is racist and rich people are evil), demanded that citizens accept searches without a warrant (NDAA), administered centralized economic planning managed by a corrupt central bank (Fed Reserve), forced government controlled healthcare (Obamacare), death panels (Obamacare), healthcare focused on the most productive citizens (as stated by Rahm Emanuel’s Bro and Obamacare), mass abortion on minorities (Planned Parenthood) and obviously mass Gun Control. In reality, FBI stats confirm that Gun violence is down 39% from the mid 90s, yet they create hysteria by lying through their teeth. Notice that the DHS has purchased over 2 Billion rounds in the past two years. All the while Obama signs unconstitutional executive orders to limit ammo for the public. These are tyrannical operations. This administration took the worst of Bush (Crushing debt, war, police state policies and constitutional destruction) and accelerated the agenda. Our leaders continue to use our soldiers to fight wars for banks and contractors. Why? Because you people keep electing them. Both parties are two heads on the same monster. Why do you think the Republicans robbed Ron Paul? He wanted to audit their, the IRS and Obama’s overlords at the corrupt and privately owned Federal Reserve. A simple vote by congress to repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 would save our Nation A LOT of Money! Cheers!

  • Yehuda Alan

    Good job Congress. About time someone woke up and realized there is another scandel going on, that of the DHS stockpiling 100 of times more ammo than they need. Unless they are preparing for the apocolypse ( I don’t even believe in the apocolypse). Or are they getting ready for a civil war?

  • Bud

    If you’ve ever been at the range when these agents are practicing, go look at there targets most can hit the target somewhere, but there are no really good groups. Should these agents be practicing, you bet and alot more for some. They tend to practice alot at 15 to 25 yds and thats when the shots are all over the target, as the FBI has said recently they need to practice alot more from 10 yds in. Most of these agents tend to go practice just before they need to qualify, not the best way to stay proficent.

  • Ron

    The only high volume shooters in the military are our SEALS who daily fire betweet 100 and 500 rounds per man. They are the best.

  • Ncrdbl1

    Congress needs to force DHS to turn over that ammo to the border patrol.

  • chfnelson

    The real question is why they are buying hollow point ammo, which should not be wasted for training purposes. Heard all the excuses about why they need so much ammo, but they don’t make real sense.

    • Smootchie

      using cheap FMJ ammo to train would be ideal in a perfect world. What happens when FMJ gets used in place of HP ammo in the line of duty? the FMJ ammo goes right through doors windows and intended targets much more effectively than HP ammo… and does less damage to the intended target.

      • chfnelson

        Obviously, you do not understand much about shooting. Agents practice putting rounds through targets, and FMJ works quite well for that. Recoil is the same with FMJ and HP ammo, and that is where they need the practice. HP might be used for duty, but they don’t need it for practice.
        I always practice with FMJ, but for serious social situations I have HP ammo.
        While many think that it is all conspiracy talk, I do question why they are buying more expensive ammo.

        • Smootchie

          You dont understand much about the capacity and almost certainty of human error. How would you like to be the one behind an intended target when an Agent accidentally loads his weapon with FMJ. Ever heard of over penetration? FMJ is real good for that.

          But hey lets save 5 bucks on a box of 50 rounds… if people die as a result.. big deal.

          • chfnelson

            Obviously you still do not understand my point. I have been a shooter all my life, and I am well aware of ballistics. Training with cheaper FMJ bullets is the economic solution. I never said agents should use FMJ in service. And any miss with any ammo is not the best thing to happen.
            Agents do not ‘accidentally’ load with other than authorized ammo on the job.
            Now go out and learn something about ballistics and tactics before making more anymore remarks.

          • Smootchie

            Agents don’t accidently load with any other ammo on the job because they have no other ammo to load. They use what they are issued. They are forbidden to use any other ammo in their issued weapons. If fmj ammo was allowed for training ammo , how long do you think it would be before some agent accidentally grabbed a magazine of fmj? If you say it can’t happen you are not worth discussing this with …. you are an ideologue with no concern other than your opinions.

          • chfnelson

            Again, you have no clue about the subject. As a retired Army Officer and former Deputy Sheriff, I can tell you that training ammunition is issued at the range, and unused ammo collected at the end of the session. Agents DO NOT take magazines loaded with training ammo off the range.
            I have tried to have a reasonable discussion, however you have sunk to using insults. And your last statement contains a contradiction. If they have no other ammo to use, how can they grab a different type?

          • Smootchie

            If they have no other ammo to choose from they can’t mistakenly choose another ammo type… Exactly as I stated. No contraindications. I am a firearms instructor for these agents trained at FLETC. I don’t care what you THINK you know or where you retired from. You don’t know how WE train and what agency constraints we operate under.

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