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Defend Thyself Personal Defense

Texas Father Kills Molester During Attack; Is it Justified Defense?

by Richard Nance   |  June 14th, 2012 150
Shiner Texas

Photo from KHOU

According to The Huffington Post, a father from Lavaca County, Texas killed an acquaintance, whom the he caught attempting to sexually abuse the father’s 4-year-old daughter.

At a gathering, just outside Shiner, Texas, the father was outside tending to horses, when he heard his 4-year-old daughter scream from inside the residence. When the father ran into the house, he found a 47-year-old man attempting to molest the man’s daughter.

In order to protect his daughter and prevent her from being sexually assaulted, the father punched the man in the head several times, resulting in the man’s death. According to Lavaca County Sheriff, Micah Harmon, the father was “very remorseful” and did not realize that the man would die from his injuries. Harmon described the 4-year-old girl as “OK, besides the obvious mental trauma” of the incident.

The father and daughter’s names were withheld to protect the child’s privacy.  The name of the deceased was not released pending notification of his family.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjsGnfLQAmU&feature=related

“You have a right to defend your daughter,” Harmon told CNN.  “[The girl’s father] acted in defense of his third person. Once the investigation is completed we will submit it to the district attorney who then submits it to the grand jury, who will decide if they will indict him.”

While I’m unfamiliar with Texas laws, in California, where I am a police officer, a person has the right to use deadly force to prevent serious bodily injury or death to themselves or a third party (in this case, the father protecting his 4-year-old daughter). While the definition of “serious bodily injury” can be somewhat subjective, a 47-year-old man attempting to sexually assault a 4-year-old girl would surely meet that criterion.

However, according to the California Department of Justice’s publication, “California Firearms Laws 2007”, “The right of self-defense ceases when there is no further danger from an assailant. Thus, where a person attacked under circumstances initially justifying self-defense renders the attacker incapable of inflicting further injuries, the law of self-defense ceases and no further force may be used.”

In other words, once the assailant no longer poses a threat, you are no longer warranted in using force against him. Let’s assume that this incident occurred in California, and the father’s first punch incapacitated the assailant. In such case, it would no longer be legally defensible for the father to continue to punch the assailant.

Fortunately, in this case, it seems as though the father prevented his 4-year-old daughter from sustaining serious and lasting injury. Of secondary importance is the fact that it does not appear as though the father will be charged.

What are your thoughts?

  • steve

    I think justice has been served, he didn't mean to kill the man. The 4 year old could have been killed if the father did not take some action and I think any loving father would have reacted about the same.

    • Wayne

      According to the article, no intent to mame or kill was displayed. Rather to stop the assault. In defense of more than one punch, any father would experience a rage to the point of temporary insanity in judgement. The fathers actions were justifyable. The perps actions were the major cause of his demise.

      • wall e

        THE MAN WASS……………… MELESTING A Four year old

    • wall E

      In other words, once the assailant no longer poses a threat

      just becauce you hit the guy in the head doesnt mean he is going to go OK and walk away or no longer pose a threat ….. now saying that sitting there beating some one when they are KO is right NO or if there siting there getting pummeled and just trying to protect them selfs then yea the law your talking about is in right but trying to use In other words, once the assailant no longer poses a threat to defend THE GILTY >>>>> wow whats wrong with america hell more OJ …. any one or how about i go rob your house and runn away and come back and sue you ….. lol wow america is this messed up and the Judges that…………. wow………. no wonder

  • Scott

    Thank the Lord they are in Texas then.

    • Bill K

      I agree with Scott, good for Texas and the man. In Kalifornia he probably would be taken to court. Justice was served and the criminal will not molest any more children, especially four year olds.

    • latxguy

      that is a fact!! california or such would use the life in prison for him.

    • wibbys1

      I agree totally.

  • Allan Mitchell

    As my OU Criminal Law professor said, "If you or your clients are going to shoot someone in self defense, for god's sake use a gun big enough to do it in one shot." The right to defend is a matter of law. When the right ceases to exist is a matter of fact for the jury. The difference is a few years of your life and all of the assets you have managed to accumulate.

    • John

      I don’t know about that; case law has proven otherwise.

    • common sense

      You've got to be kidding, even cops with 45s shoot multiple times.

  • Paul B.

    This piece of crap got what he deserved.

  • JOE

    DEFEND YOUR CHILDREN AT ALL COST! THEY ARE PRECIOUS AND NOT DESERVING OF ANY KIND OF ABUSE! HE DID WHAT ANY REAL DADDY WOULD DO!

    • Tim S

      I dont care if she was four or fourteen or twenty four the end result of someone trying to molest my daughter would have been the same.

  • mike

    I would have done the same thing!!

  • Jim Spencer

    Well done to the father. But I have two very big problems with this article, namely: 1) "While I’m unfamiliar with Texas laws, in California.." – What on earth does California law have to do with this case WHATSOEVER?!? The author just needs to SHUT UP with the commentary right there if he's not even willing to take 5 minutes to attempt to Google some relevant Texas law on self defense as it applies to family members. And 2) I don't even know what this is doing on Guns & Ammo in the first place, as no firearm was used or even shown in the incident. Very sloppy work Mr. Nance.

    • dylan_polk

      The California laws are there for comparison. Readers in California may need to know how to react in a similar situation, but they also need to be informed that they may not be granted the leniency by local law enforcement that this father has (so far) been granted.

      As for this blog's place on G&A, well, from the banner at the top of the page: "Tips and tactics for defending your home, your family and your life from Personal Defense expert Richard Nance." I think attacking a pedophile in the act would fall under that criteria.

      -Dylan Polk, G&A online editorial assistant

    • Alan Smith

      Jim Spencer… THIS IS A SELF DEFENSE BLOG! Learn how to read man!

    • Ross Walters

      Jim Spencer asks (then answers) his own questions.
      You may not agree with him…I know I don't.
      I think the legal boundaries of self-defense are a relevant Guns & Ammo issue given recent events and this author sheds some light on the subject.
      Even so Spencer doesn't deserve Alan Smith's cretan attack which accomplished nothing and adds zero to the discussion.

    • Omar

      Agreed, Spencer. This is the difference between journalism and commentary. In the media these days, the two are blurred far too easily and opinion then gets accepted as fact.

      If G&A wants to be informative, the writers and editors MUST strive for higher quality in the articles they post. The inclusion of California Firearms Law in the discussion turned this article on self-defense into a attack piece on California law.

      Self-defense by hand versus with a weapon of any kind are two different matters. They must be treated as such for a reasonable discussion to take place.

      A single punch has a low chance of causing death. A single bullet or stab wound or blunt object strike have a far greater chance of death. That is why there is a law for simple assault versus a law for assault with a deadly weapon.

      If this case occurred in California, it is reasonable to assume the father would not be prosecuted for the same reason he would not be in Texas: no DA is gonna get re-elected for prosecuting a father defending his 4-year- old daughter from a molester. Period

      • rick

        you would think that a case of defending a child for a pedophile would grant you some lenience from the law but it does not, sure a prosecutor would think twice about pressing charges against such case but there is always one that wants to make example of how tough they are on people that takes the law in their own hand.
        If this had happened in California and a gun had been used you can rest assure the father would be in jail as we are typing.

    • Tim S

      All relevant points.

  • JDS

    The father had no choice – it was his daughter or the jerk attacking her. He did exactly what anyone of us would have done.

    Also, in the heat of the moment how does he know that the attacker is incapacitated? Should ask the guy "OK buddy are you down and won't attack my little girl?".

    There is no reason to put this man and his family through a grand jury. Waste of everyones time.

    • Skip H.

      In Texas, all homicides, justifiable or not, are reviewed by a grand jury. In this case, it is going to the grand jury with no charges. It is highly unlikely that the DA will file any sort of charges. In my opinion, a Lavaca Co. Grand jury is more likely to nominate him for father of the year than to return any sort of true bill.

      Under Texas law, which does allow lethal force in defense of a third party, the fathers actions were not only justified, but appropriate. There was no intendant to kill, just to protect his daughter.

    • http://www.facebook.com/brianmo78 Brian Morris

      Exactly don't waste time and money.

      It' sad that he could not be tortured buy life in prison where he might be raped. But the system sadly doesn't seem to view these types of sexual assault crimes as they are, and that is absolutely wrong and worthy of death penalty.
      so save the money and KILL THE BASTARD! good Job DAD!

  • http://www.facebook.com/TimEBaker Tim Baker

    Make no mistake my child or not… If I witness such a horrific crime my initial act of defense would render the attacker incapable of inflicting further injury as well as dead because a hollow point will do that for you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alex.garza.5243 Alex Garza

    He got what he deserved!!!!!!!!

  • the avenger

    common sense is alive and well in some parts of Texas. the news comes off sympathizing with the child molester. the fathers instinct was proper and inacordance with natural law. however this situation should serve as a warning to all of us on who we trust around our children. I don't have children but if I did I wouldn't let anyone who wasn't related or trusted around them including teachers. I'm going to home school mine. there are multiple forms of molestation I had teachers tried to push their new age bull on me at a very young and influential age. they don't just sing the abc's in school anymore like they ever did. I stood up and walked out of the classroom that day. you see your kid talking to a tree they are either mentally challenged or under the influence of some hippie teacher

    • Cheryl

      Went have kids be careful because in most molestation case its a relative or close family friend just because they are related or close to you doesn't mean they wouldn't do anything. This swirls is going to he'll and people are crazy. The man should have made him suffer more killed him too fast. Sorry I believe in an eye for an eye.

      • the avenger

        no quick is the only smart way if not chances are good he/she/it will live you won't. eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. when met with an evil force it is necessary to meet that force with the equal good. in some cases that means doing things that are difficult . and you stated the obvious about the trusted family or friends.

  • Jermaine

    If that was my daughter I would'ny have stopped no matter what state I was in. These monster's get arrested and get out with a slap on the wrist and say they no longer have the urge to be with kids just to turn around and do it again and go even further like killing the kids.

  • eric

    I would have done the same and i think any loving father would.

  • Jim

    Just one of the many reasons I would neither live in, nor visit, california. Texans fortunately, have not lost their common sense. A father, has more than a right, as stated by the Sheriff, he has an obligation, to protect his daughter, regardless of her age, but especially at the age of 4 years. Well done Dad.

  • Antonio

    Touch my daughter and it'll take God Himself to pull me off the criminal.

    “The right of self-defense ceases when there is no further danger from an assailant." This is troubling because in the heat of an incident, who's to say when there is no further danger? The guy moving away from you may be reaching for a weapon, but shooting him in the back is suspect. A PCP, crack or bath salt-crazed assailant is not easily taken down, and even when LE have to shoot him multiple times to bring him down the liberals cry bloody murder. People do not have "off" switches. I say, the antagonist should be held accountable; the protagonist should be given the benefit of the doubt.

    We should launch a national "stand your ground" day.

  • Brian

    Don't know the law in Texas, but in NC you can use a firearm to prevent sexual assault. Also you can use your firearm to defend someone who has the right to prevent sexual assault. So in NC….YES

  • TVJ

    Well done by the Dad.

    Daughter doesnt have to ever worry about her attacker "somewhere" out there. She has enough to make peace with….

  • https://www.facebook.com/joe.sobotka Joe Sobotka

    He did what any loving father would/should do. The piece of garbage died, got what he deserved. If he had lived, he probably would try it again on somone else's child. Good riddens!!!

  • Frank907

    Prior to the 60's when some liberal dopers came up with the brilliant idea of a "duty to retreat", stand your ground was the law of the land and had been since colonists landed in North America. It was also true worldwide. What happened here was a man protecting a family member. 60 years ago the circumstances would be that the results of investigation would be given to a grand jury who would find it to be justifiable homicide and not return an indictment. The reality is that there are some among us who desperately need killing and they are protected. It used to be that the public were the people who were protected. Look at the differences between criminal "rights" and victims rights.

    • John

      No that was in 1532 defined as excusable homicide

  • Tanstaafl2

    This is Texas – you couldn't find a jury down here who'd vote to convict (and if the DA tried, he'd be thrown out of office).

    I hope both the little girl and her father are able to fully recover from this traumatizing experience.

  • Brian B

    Justice was served, and I would do the same if ever put in the same position. I'm pretty sure there was no chance for the dad to "think" this through after the first punch was made. The only focus was removing the threat. Job well done Dad.

  • Don

    Several of the posts mention the molester at some point molesting someone else in the future if he hadn't been killed. I found myself wondering about other little girls (or boys) he might've molested BEFORE he got his just deserts – she might not have been the first …

  • deadenddream

    he beat the sheet out of the guy like any dad would do, the only thing is the guy died, which is kinda rare from just being punched in the head. had he punched him in the head until unconscious and then got a gun and executed him this might be worthy of a second look, otherwise it just silly to even consider him for any kind of criminal charges. but i also agree with the texas thing, for had it been in cali where i live, he would be seeing his daughter in the visiting area of the nearest prison. califofnian's love criminals so much they try and make more of them at every opportunity!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/austinj.richards Austin J Richards

      Not only do they enjoy making criminals, they also elect them to govern the "little people."

      • slinky

        you hit the nail on the head

  • wnettles

    If this news story has a silver lining, it is the fact that the taxpayers of the State of Texas will not have to pay to incarcerate the sexual perpetrator for the crime that he was commiting when he was arrested (literally).

    • hijinx60

      AND there will be no repeat offenses!! GREAT job Dad.

  • DRZ

    In Kentucky, Rape or Sexual Molestation of a child is serious physical abuse and bodily harm and as such deadly force may be used to protect another person in such cases where such harm is actually occurring. Striking an individual with your fist is iffy as intentional deadly force if you are not a martial arts expert, a professional boxer, mixed martial arts combatant, etc. Morre than likely the Grand Jury would refuse to indict.

  • scott

    Wow, questionable even when accidental deadly force was used via fist? I'd be surprised to find many logical folks who wouldn't question it if the guy suddenly weighed a few pounds heavier from all of the lead in him. If he went "too far" in a jury's eyes, it would hopefully be reduced to manslaughter or something lighter. That image of his daughter being attacked will scar him for the rest of his life but he feels remorse also for taking the scum's life on accident. Sounds like the molester got himself two victims and that is the only tragedy here.

  • AWD

    Nothing to see here. Man protects young daughter against predator.

    Predator is killed.

    End of story.

    There's nobody in Texas that's going to prosecute this father for his actions.

    AD

  • T.D. Honeycutt

    The Texas Penal Code would seem to be on point here regarding the use of deadly force in defense of a person, and it specifically cites "imminent commission of … sexual assault."
    And, since the father struck him with his fists, and the person died, I think that's the definition of deadly force, although we typically associate deadly force with some implement like a knife, stick, tool or firearm.

    PC §9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
    (1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
    (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
    (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
    (b) The actor's belief

    • http://www.facebook.com/brianmo78 Brian Morris

      nuf' said. It's very clear by the definition of Texas Law here that this man acted within his right to defend his family. I sure hope no charges are filed.

  • Depuity Andy III

    Screw the law if one of my children were being attacked I would stop the attacker period. We can sort it all out after the child is safe.

  • T.D. Honeycutt

    By the way, I lived in Texas for almost 20 years, and obtained a concealed carry license the first year of issuance. While a CHL is not essential in the argument for use of deadly force, it's essential if you are a licensee to understand the law intimately, since you'll be a lot closer to a deadly weapon than your non-CHL citizen.

  • Andrew Auletta

    It's a sad state of affairs when you have to wonder if you're applying too much force at the very moment you're trying to keep some d'bag is causing harm to you or a family member. These laws are rediculous. If someone is doing lasting harm, or attempting to take a life, you should be able to incapacitate the person, even if it have to take his life to do it.

  • https://www.facebook.com/zoomdawg Brian Izumi

    At least there's one pedophile that won't have the chance to become a repeat offender.

  • Fred

    I don't care if the daughter is 4 or 40, if a Man sees someone assaulting his daughter, or child of any sex, he will react.
    The Father used what force he thought was necessary. He defended his daughter. What more is there to say?
    Ask any Father if he would do the same, I bet the answer is yes 100% of the time.

  • Torontogunguy

    One less pedophile to deal with. Wish that more pedophiles met their demise in a similar manner to save our tax dollars. Believe that the action taken needs to be validated by authorities though. Was the daughter being molested? Was this the guy doing the molesting? If both are fact, IMHO, he got exactly what he deserved and not a smidgen more or less than what he deserved.

  • Tom

    any state that would try and prosecute a father for defending his daughter is nuts. sounds like California fits that bill, which is why I sure dont live there, and never will.

  • https://www.facebook.com/jon.weatherspoon Jon D Weatherspoon

    Justice served. Had he witnessed the alleged incident, went to another room to retrieve any form of weapon, then returned and used a weapon…there would have been serious ramifications for this father. I'm sure, as a dad with 4 daughters, that the rage that overtook him surely resulted in more force-filled blows. The perps dead and no other little girl(s) will face the possibility of becoming his next victim(s). Missouri RSs read the same as the CA LEO described: Individuals are different and thus our reactions defer equally. In this case, I believe the father was treated appropriatel, he should have been. Long live justice, no matter how savage it may seem. Say a prayer for the little girl and the family that they may put this incident behind and move on with their lives.

    Spoon USAF Ret
    Rural MO

  • CWP Holder

    Absolutely justified….. The only crime is he could not kill the SOB two or three times and make him suffer more.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pete.scott.370 Pete Scott

    What bothers me the most about this is that there has to be a question of legal or not
    SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO MOLEST HIS DAUGHTER
    I could care less what law here or there is mess with my daughter and at best you're going to the ER worst the morgue

  • Dee

    Does anybody believe this is the first time this scumbag molested a little girl?

    • http://www.facebook.com/dave.hicks.902 Dave Hicks

      uhm no
      but I promise
      IT WAS HIS LAST

  • Steel23

    Could not agree more with Tanstaafl2…This is Texas. It does not matters what the charges are. There will never be a single jury to vote for a conviction. If there is a dumb enough DA pressing charges, he will most likely spend the rest of his career life chasing ambulances because for sure is not ever getting elected again

  • Tireman

    No, he didn't get what he deserved. He deserved a s low painful death.

  • Larry

    It should be open season on child molesters

  • David Ransom

    Like the author, I'm also in California. In my area, we've lost two people to being punched once in the head, and their head hitting the ground. I imagine this father struck the molester more than once quickly, and stopped when he realized the guy was not conscious. Force was used to stop a felony, with no desire to cause a death. The resulting death is a direct result of the molester's decision to commit his acts.

    • http://www.facebook.com/brianmo78 Brian Morris

      Well Said

  • John Dixon

    Even if the attacker is out on the first punch he is still a threat. Only a moron would not continue to punch the attacker, in light of the fact he could easily come too and kill the father and daughter. The politicians who make laws such as those in California pass those laws with the knowledge and hope that the attacker will come too and finish the job they had started. These law makers are evil and the people who support them are just as evil as the politicians.

  • Snuffy

    The author sites California Firearms Code…..Not sure what some CA firearms code has to do with this story. Hard to believe that CA wouldn't have a similar law on fists when they have a law for everything else.

  • Dale

    He stopped hitting him before creep was little more than a smear on the floor ,showing admirable restraint.

  • G OOSTA

    WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY ,IF SOMEONE TRIED TO MOLEST MY DAUGHTER IN MY HOUSE, THEY WOULD BE TAKEING HIM OUT OF MY HOUSE IN A BODYBAG , SCREW THE PEOPLE WHO THINK HE USED TO MUCH FORCE ,WHATS HE SUPOSE TO DO DIAL 911 AND WAIT FOR A COP TO SHOW UP , HIS DAUGHTER WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED,THAT PIECE OF CRAP DESERVED TO DIE ,I WILL ALWAYS FIGHT TO PROTECT MY FAMILY NO MATTER WHAT THE THREAT, THESE MORON POLITICANS NEED TO STOP PROTECTING THE SCUMB BAGS AND START DOING THE JOB THEY WERE ELECTED TO DO ,INSTEAD OF SITTING ON THEIR ASS .

  • KDR

    I don't think I would of killed him, (at least not on purpose). BUT, I would have casturated him!!!!!

    • Alan_T

      Castration doesn't stop pedophiles ….. whether you're talking about medicinal or physical castration ……. unless of course they bleed to death . Like rape , it's not really about sex and castration in whatever form doesn't stop them . Child molesters need to be locked up with NO CHANCE OF EVER BEING RELEASED or EXTERMINATED like the vermin they are . Preferably the latter ….. in my opinion .

      • KDR

        Never seen my method of catration. Survival rate is 0%

  • Garand Gunner

    Incapacitated or not, I'd have killed him just for hurting one of my kids. If he was unconscious I'd have shot him just to make sure he can't come back.

  • John

    I missed something: Where's the part about Romney?
    Being a globalist, I suspect he supports the UN from whence most calls for gun control emanate, regardless of what he might say as a candidate. he's switched too many times on other issues for me to trust him

    • Alan_T

      John , what the hell are you blathering about ? ! ! !

      • Alan_T

        Ooooooooooooh never mind John , I get it ….. when your Liberal Troll buddies sent you the links :
        " G&A Perspective: Gun Ownership Under President Romney " , and " Texas Father Kills Molester During Attack; Is it Justified Defense? "
        , so you can harass people who don't go along with the Liberal agenda , you clicked on the WRONG LINK ! ! ! Not only mentally ill and childish but also STUPID ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    • Chief Boring

      And you trust Obama!? The NRA will keepRomney straight . We surely don't need the current resident of the White House to have an opportunity to appoint any more Supreme Court Justices to screw up the Second Amendment. As to this case, the dad was right. In California, I suppose it would have been better if he shot the molester.

  • Winbob

    I'm worried that the Father might suffer the same fate as the Character in the new movie "Bernie". This is a true story that happened in East Texas. The DA realized that a jury of towns people would not convict Bernie of Murder, and got the trial moved to another town where no one new that Bernie was a good person, and that the dead woman was a terrible bitch that drove him to it.

    This case could turn bad in the end!

  • S.A.

    I think the dad was totally justified in hitting the guy. If once would have kept hi away from the little girl, then perhaps he should have stopped at one punch, but if the guy started fighting back, then he had to defend himself. But realistically, what dad would stop at one blow when a four year old is in that position?

  • Mack Missiletoe

    If this info is true and this man is punished for these actions, America needs a new justice system. Of course it's okay to defend your daughter from a sexual assault. Should be able to use a gun against the man. We all know the judge and jury would do the same.

    • Alan_T

      Mack , I say we let Will Hayden have every child molester caught so he can try out one of his smooth – bores ….. maybe if we ask him nice , Will will let us help !

  • Stephen

    So anyone in Texas who wants to get away with murder can say his victim was a child molestor and the police will let him go. No actual evidence required that the victim was a child molestor. I am sure murderers in Texas will be profoundly grateful for this permission.

    • Tony

      O my god you have to be kidding. You can't really believe that can you?

    • B Detweiler

      I am sure the law enforcement officers in Texas are just as suspicious as you are and checked the facts before accepting the father's story. Trust but verify is the rule.

    • Alan_T

      Yes Stephen your right …….. whadda you say we send YOU to Texas ? Only thing lower than a pedophile is a Liberal that makes excuses for them !

    • JOE

      WHAT IF IT HAD BEEN ONE OF YOUR LOVED ONES BEING MOLESTED? WOULD YOU SAY THAT'S ALLRIGHT YOU JUST MUST BE BEING AFFECTIONATE.
      IT'S GOOD YOU HAVE BEEN PROTECTED FROM ALL THE REALLY BAD PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

  • Tony

    He needed removed from the jean pool.

  • James R Gilmore

    I think this Father should be justified in his action's.I am a Father of 3 daughter's ( all grown ) and 4 granddaughters and two grandsons.I would have done the same for my daughters,be it that thay where grown or not.My grandchildren,I would have tried in all my power to kill the person trying to harm them! They can not defend them selfes against such.I live in North Carolina and I am glad we have more sensiable laws.This Father deserves a hand shake!

  • Dan_in_Tx

    I agree with the idea that the man was perfectly justified in defending his daughter- or anyone's daughter. Or anyone, period, with deadly force. I am not 100% familiar with Texas laws either, but they are very similar to the Florida laws that have taken so much flak lately.

    And if he were 'remorseful' for accidentally killing the person trying to molest his daughter, well, he's a better man than I am!

    • https://www.facebook.com/greg.takemoto Greg Takemoto

      No BS there I'd have a party. "Another one bites the dust! One down a million to go.

  • Antonio

    Funny, we had a dialogue here on G&A recently on whether "punching" was an effect form of self defense (something to that effect). Well, guess what, worked in this case.

  • Alan_T

    The only thing lower than a child molester is someone that would make excuses for them . All scientific research shows that Pedophiles can not be rehabilitated . I'll repeat that , ALL scientific research shows that PEDOPHILES CAN NOT BE REHABILITATED !
    As far as I am concerned , the girl's father did us all a favor !

  • Bassman 67

    If the guy had to molest kids, he was no use to anybody anyway. Less clutter in the human waste pile!

  • CoachT312

    Well done Dad! Wish the justice system would take a note from this fathers reaction, and learn to serve it. They are reprobates, and are not capable of being redeemed. It is a scientific fact (over 98% Recidivism rate) that they will do it again if given a chance, and that you cannot rehabilitate them. I wish the justice system would eradicate them all so that they are never allowed to harm a child again!

  • DavidE

    I feel it was justified, I hope he shot him more than once starting at the lower extremities. GOD BLESS AMERICA and the 2nd Amendment!

  • S-W-S

    To act as advocatus diaboli, we only have the father's testimony that the deceased was trying to molest the child; we have no knowledge of whether the father was a pro boxer, martial artist or bodybuilder and we have zero knowledge of any pre-existing animosity between the father and the deceased. We also have no knowledge of how the deceased was struck or how often.

    IF the case is taken at face value, yes, the father's actions were justified, but until all the facts are in, shouldn't we leave the pitchforks and torches at home?

    • Alan_T

      To refute the Devil's Advocate , While the 4 year old girl would be young to testify in court , I'm sure the sheriff interviewed her , so it's NOT just the fathers word . Whether or not the father was a martial artist or bodybuilder has zero legal bearing on the case . It is HIGHLY doubtful that there was any pre – existing animosity between the father and the alleged child molester because the father had hired the deceased to groom some of his horses and he was working for the father at the time . The report says the the alleged pedophile was struck " several times in the head " with the father's bare fists . The term several would denote more than twice , but certainly less than ten times . Further more , the sheriff couldn't comment on what HE thought because it is an on – going investigation and it would have been improper and possibly illegal for the sheriff to do so . However , the mere fact that the father was not arrested speaks volumes , because IF the sheriff had suspected it was something other than what was claimed , he COULD / SHOULD have taken the father into custody , which he didn't ( in most jurisdictions a suspect can be held 24 hours without being charged ) .
      While I do appreciate where you are coming from S – W – S , I think your comment about pitchforks and torches is , to say the least , a bit misguided and over – stated .

      • S-W-S

        As a former DA, I saw far too many cases that on the surface seemed cut-and-dry, but on closer examination were something completely different.
        The 4 year old girl must be interviewed; it is surprisingly easy to convince a 4 year old that something happened when it actually didn't (mind you, I'm talking in general terms, not about this particular case). So unless the child can answer some (basic) questions at the scene or shortly thereafter, there could be the possibility of tampering.

        The status of an "attacker" as a boxer or martial artist is ALWAYS legally relevant in cases where the deceased was punched to death; a boxer, for example, has much greater knowledge of the power and effect of his punches than, for example, an anti-violence stand-up comedian. In other words; getting punched by a flyweight boxing champion is vastly different than getting punched by your average grandma, even if they both weigh the same; akin to getting hit by a lead-core nightstick instead of a balsa wood rod of the same dimensions.

        We have zero knowledge of animosity or lack thereof between the deceased and the father. It would not be the first time that a would-be aggressor lures his victim to a position where he can strike by promising or providing him basic work, despite existing animosity.

        The fact that the father was not arrested does not speak volumes at all. I would not have had him arrested either; if the investigation showed suspicious activity, I would go to a grand jury with my evidence to get an indictment.

        The comments of the lynch mob mentality seems to me to be well suited; EVERYBODY seems to be jumping on the "he got what he deserved" bandwagon without having all the facts in.

        Kinda reminds me of the way anti-gun reporters jump on bandwagons based on half-truths.

        • Alan_T

          Former D A ? Now if you had chosen to say that you were something on the order of a former Assistant States Attorney , I might have believed you , but now I know know you're another poser playing like you're an authority . A District Attorney ( D . A . ) is the appointed head of a FEDERAL DISTRICT law office . that;s pretty high up and there's not a lot of them floating around . But here's why I know you're not what you claim .. 1 ) Boxers are regulated on a STATE LEVEL in the state( s )where the boxer's license is held by the state( s ) boxing commissions and unless there has been a recent development that I am unaware of , martial artists and body builders are not regulated at all . There are no statutes on the books about boxer's registering there hands as lethal weapons ( although they COULD lose their boxing license( s ) ) THAT IS AN URBAN MYTH ! 2 ) There is NO SUCH THING AS A LEAD CORE NIGHTSTICK .

          • Alan_T

            3 ) Lawyers stock and trade is the use of the English language ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY GET TO THE FEDERAL LEVEL and your English composition is atrocious , you sound like a person in high school TRYING to sound like an attorney . Examples : " cut – and – dry "
            the term is cut and dried and there is NO hyphenation between words and your paragraph starting with " We have zero knowledge of animosity or lack thereof " is gibberish . 4 ) If you attempted to file a legal brief as poorly constructed as what you have written here , the judge wouldn't accept it . You obviously have no knowledge of police procedure because IT DOES speak volumes that the father wasn't taken into custody in a homicde case . I could continue but this is taking way too much space since I'm having to make multiple postings, so I'll leave off here .

          • S-W-S

            I use the term "D.A." because it is recognized and familiar to most readers. My title was "Fiscal Estatal". Yes. It's in Spanish; I live and work in Puerto Rico, which is a U.S. Territory where English is not the official language, ergo, my stock-in-trade is the Spanish language. Thank you for noticing that English is not my native tongue. If I intended to say that I was a federal-level prosecutor I would have said "U.S. Attorney".

            I never said anything about registering hands as lethal weapons; thank you for jumping to conclusions.

            Lead-core nightstick: I don't know in the states, but here in PR riot police used to use a long, double-ended hard rubber stick with a steel rod at the core. It is no longer common, but while its core was actually made from steel, it was referred to as a "macana de plomo" or "lead club/nightstick". Maybe you would've understood better if I compared a lead pipe to a PVC pipe.

            This is a forum. On the internet. With limited space and time to write. Are you seriously saying that you expect ANYONE to write in the same professional manner in which one writes a legal dissertation?

          • Alan_T

            So …… in other words YOU LIED about being a D . A ! !HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
            If you had said a " ' U . S . Attorney ( sic ) ' " …… you still would have been wrong , and not because you misspelled the word .
            YES ! … I am " seriously saying that I expect ANYONE to write in the same professional manner in which one writes a legal dissertation? " , if one is CLAIMING to be a legal authority ( " D . A . " or any other government legal professional ) . And the term is NOT " legal dissertation "
            You're a liar and you must be a pathological one , because most sane people wouldn't dig themselves in deeper by compounding their lies when caught in them !

          • S-W-S

            Right. So now you are calling me a liar because English is not my native tongue?

            If you seriously expect others to write professional-grade comments on news articles, I suggest that you set the example and don't go around insulting others for their linguistic limitations.

            And what do you call a written exposition on a law-related topic? Here it's a "disertacion legal" (that's Spanish).

          • Alan_T

            No S – W – S , I called you a liar because YOU ARE A LIAR ! You KNOWINGLY gave false or misleading information , I . E . claiming to be a District Attorney , which you have admitted that you aren't , THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF A LIE .
            And by the way ,YOU WOULD KNOW THIS if you were in fact a LAWYER OF ANY KIND , that , that is ethical grounds for disbarment !
            I am not . nor have I claimed to be a judge or an attorney , BUT I have lots of friends and associates on local , state and Federal levels who are ( as well as LEO's ) and as far your comment on me ….. I never made any comment at all , insulting or otherwise , about your " linguistic limitations " , but YOU are the one Claiming to be a professional , therefore YOU BY LAW are held to a higher standard . Again , if you WERE a lawyer you would KNOW THESE THINGS , English OR Spanish !

          • S-W-S

            You are entitled to your own opinion. After attacking the straw man (calling me an "insane pathological liar" based SOLELY on a mistranslation of my title and other terms) instead of addressing the points I raised in my original post, which respectfully addressed your refuted points.

            I mentioned my status merely to express the point of origin of my experience without having to later explain it.

            I have ZERO need or desire to "prove" that you are wrong, because the only way I can possibly do that is by revealing very personal information; i.e. the number of my LICENCIA DE ABOGADO – I say it in spanish because I suspect that if I say "bar number" you are going to start screaming hysterically again.

            Since I'm not willing to do that, I guess I'll have to allow you to remain believing in your misconception.

            You done?

          • Alan_T

            Poor S – W – S , the poor " straw man " victim , I'm sure everyone feels sorry for you !
            It's amazing how you try to twist things around , how you put words in my mouth that I didn't say I . E . " INSANE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR " although I do suspect that you are . There was no " mistranslation " of your so called " title " , as YOU YOURSELF ADMITTED EARLIER !
            I addressed ALL OF YOUR POINTS , which is why you're now trying to obscure things because you were caught in lies ( just scroll back and read ) and I answered all of your erroneous statements , point by point .

          • Alan_T

            You say that you have " ZERO need or desire to "prove" that you ( I am ) are wrong . " , yet here you are still trying to do just that . Further more , I would like to be enlightened as to where it was that you say that I was " screaming hysterically " ? ? ? There was no " screaming " , " hysterical ' or otherwise , ( except perhaps in your head ) . I put it to you , with a statement like that , that once again YOU are a liar . The only misconceptions here , S – W – S , are the ones that YOU deliberately created !
            Am I done ? ….. I don't know , are YOU done , with your lies , falsehoods , self – aggrandizement , attempted character assassinations and misdirections " Mr . District Attorney " ?

          • Wolvie

            Ummm….

            1 of 2 things happened here…

            Either a bunch of posts got deleted…or Alan is arguing with himself….

            I believe it is the former…but the latter is funnier!

            Still, its a good argument, even though I can only see one side of it!

          • Alan_T

            Hmmmmmm ….. it does look that way Wolvie .
            What can I say , my friend ? ? ? HAHAHAHA
            I'm old and crabby and by arguing with myself here I am assured of winning !
            YOU ARE NOT !
            I AM SO !
            ARE NOT !
            AM SO !
            NOT !
            …….. Wait a minute Wolvie , I have to go straighten myself out .
            AM !
            NOT !
            AM SO !

          • Wolvie

            Bwahahaha!

            Actually, I was expecting another reply along the lines of:

            "My disgust for him and my subsequent verbal evisceration was so great, the comment board couldn't contain it in a single thread."

            Oh, and if you ever decide to use that line…I want my royalty check…

          • Alan_T

            HAHAHAHAHAHA uh …… the checks in the mail .

    • Guest

      looks like you couln't be bothered to read the blog or look at the clip S-W-S or youd know some of the facts

      • S-W-S

        I did read it.

        IF the incident happened as described to my own child I would've killed the bastard too.

        BUT we don't know if it did indeed happen as presented. The article presents the event's details as facts, when it is really just reporting the events as initially described in an ongoing investigation. The tone of the article leads to the conclusion that everything reported is exactly the way things happened, when these facts have not been investigated for their veracity.

        • Alan_T

          More of your B . S . , convolutions and double – talk , S – W – S !

          • S-W-S

            Quote: “…how you put words in my mouth that I didn't say I . E . " INSANE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR " although I do suspect that you are.”
            —————————

            Really? So when you said:

            —————————
            Quote: “You're a liar and you must be a pathological one , because most sane people wouldn't dig themselves in deeper by compounding their lies when caught in them !”
            —————————

            You were NOT calling me an insane pathological liar? It sure reads like you are.

            Then there is this part:

            —————————
            Quote: “I would like to be enlightened as to where it was that you say that I was " screaming hysterically " ? ? ? There was no " screaming " , " hysterical ' or otherwise , ( except perhaps in your head ) .
            —————————

            Let’s look at the evidence:

            —————————
            Quote: “So …… in other words YOU LIED about being a D . A ! !HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
            If you had said a " ' U . S . Attorney ( sic ) ' " …… you still would have been wrong , and not because you misspelled the word .”
            —————————

            This is followed by a LOT of CAPITALIZED words in this and other posts, which in the “vernacular” of the internet is the equivalent of screaming.

            Point: I did say “*former* DA”. I am not currently making any current representation of authority, which you seem to imply I am doing.

            If you interpret it that way, that is your mistake, not mine. I explained the miscommunication. If you choose not to believe it, that is your problem, not mine.

            —————————
            Quote: “I addressed ALL OF YOUR POINTS , which is why you're now trying to obscure things because you were caught in lies ( just scroll back and read ) and I answered all of your erroneous statements , point by point .
            —————————

            And I addressed all your counterpoints. You chose to focus on your personal attacks on my credibility rather than address the issue at hand.

            —————————
            Quote: “You say that you have " ZERO need or desire to "prove" that you ( I am ) are wrong . " , yet here you are still trying to do just that .”
            —————————

            Clearly you did not even bother to read the context in which the statement was made: I CAN prove to you that I am a *former* prosecutor for the DoJ in Puerto Rico (“fiscal estatal”). I could give you my BAR number and with a few clicks you can determine for yourself that you are completely mistaken and owe me an apology.

            But I won’t.

            I have no need or desire to give up my privacy by giving just about any person in the internet personal information about myself. Not to you. Not to anyone.

            So continue to call me whatever you want. So long as I give no hard identification, it’s not even slander. If it makes you feel big and powerful, so much better for you.

    • Guest

      DA? that must stand for dumb ass

  • ron.m

    hell even if he did intend to kill the pervert he was justified you cant cure these perverts and in my opinion these types of crimes should get the death penalty… quickly

  • http://www.facebook.com/AdmiralSnyder Ryan Newton Shuffle Snyder

    In Texas there was once a law called, "Bastard needed killin' " And when I hear the Older folks I know from Texas talk about it, it seems it means exactly what it says… If someone deserves it…. So if anyone can tell me they wouldn't have reacted the way he did…. Well you're a liar or a bad parent.

  • Black Bart

    I live in California where the legislative laws are a true embarassment to the rest of the United States of true Americans.
    I am happy this incident didn't happen here. Out long winded and controlling Senator Feinstein once said if we didn't have all of these laws we would have nothing but old west law where people took care of business before it went to the courts. Now, thanks to polititions like her, everybody goes to court and gets let free for doing a crime and goes to prison for not doing a crime…

  • J.R. Verdugo

    I don't know enough to add to this, but it does sound that her father may have over-reacted–one punch to take him down, and then placing him under citizens arrest for "sexual assault" should do it. I'm thinking that he will live in "hell" for that crime in prison. I'd say don't mess with the father, or he'll send you straight to your maker!

    • John

      Would it be over reactive if the father shot 3 shots to the head and chest; if he did have a firearm?

      • Alan_T

        I'm with you John , I think it would have only been over reactive if the father shot 3 shots if the father only had 2 rounds .

    • Alan_T

      J . R . are you trying to make some inappropriate joke ?
      " The father over reacted " ? …… OVER REACTED ? ! ! !
      " One punch to take him down and then placing him under citizens arrest should do it " ? ! ! !
      OVER REACTED ? ! ! ! ! ! !
      What insane comic book world did you just step out of ? ? ?

  • John

    I’m sure glad that I live in Georgia.

  • Father of Two Girls

    I can imagine how the trial would unfold.

    Defense: Officer Jackson, can you describe what you saw?

    Officer: Yessir. I saw the deceased lying on the ground with his pants around his ankles and his head caved in.

    Defense: Did you notice anything unusual?

    Officer: Yessir. I noticed that his arms and legs appeared to be unbroken. I would have started with those.

  • Brian

    This man did the right thing. I would have done the same, I will follow this incident in the media with hopes that he is not charged for defending his Daughter. God bless him and his Family. God bless Texas.

  • http://www.facebook.com/brianmo78 Brian Morris

    This man did the right thing. I would have done the same, I will follow this incident in the media with hopes that he is not charged for defending his Daughter. God bless him and his Family. God bless Texas.

    • Alan_T

      And God bless you , Mr . Morris .

  • Minarchist_1776

    That the Father in this incident had a right to use force to protect his daughter under the circumstances is irrefuteable. However, in my humble opinion for whatever anybody thinks it is worth, I think the Father did make a mistake. He stated that he did not intend to kill the perpetrator. While this is fortunately not likely to happen in Texas, it might be possible that in other jurisdictions the Father could potentially have found himself charged with manslaughter. He admitted that he just killed someone that he did not intend to kill.

    I think that if anybody should ever find themselves in a situation similar to what happened in this instance, they do what is necessary to stop the attack. If that results in the death of the perpetrator, oh well. However, when the police show up say nothing more than you used the force you thought was necessary to stop the attack. Personally, if I found someone molesting a child that I had a duty to protect I seriously doubt that I would feel remorse at killing the perpetrator. I'd feel sad for what happened to the child, wonder how one would go about cleaning up the mess and dread the paperwork hassle that would necessarily ensue. But I wouldn't feel remorse at killing somebody who was so obviously asking for it.

  • El Nastro

    Whoever wrote those laws has never been adrenalized, scared, and furious at the same time. In that state, even if the bad guy goes down with one punch, it's next to IMPOSSIBLE to just stop.

  • Alan_T

    Very good point El Nastro .

  • Wolvie

    Well, the Grand Jury met today and it's official…

    The father WILL NOT be charged!

    Well done sir in protecting your daughter and removing a piece of filth from society! Lord knows how many more children he saved from this disgusting animal.

    • Alan_T

      The father did us all a favor Wolvie ! ! !

  • Alan_T

    The attack happened on the family's ranch between the farming towns of Shiner and Yoakum. Investigators said the 23-year-old father ran toward his daughter's screams, pulled Flores off his child and beat him with his hands.
    Authorities say forensic evidence and witness accounts corroborated the father's story that his daughter was being sexually molested.
    Sheriff Micah Harmon, according to the statement, believes the girl’s father is remorseful, and did not intend to kill Flores. He called the case "traumatizing" for the girl and her entire family.
    "He was just protecting his daughter and doing what he thought he had to do to protect his daughter," Harmon said.

  • Alan_T

    A witness told law enforcement that Flores was seen forcibly carrying the girl to a secluded area, the statement said. When the girl’s dad found out, he began calling her name, and when he heard her screams, he moved in.
    When emergency medical personnel arrived at the scene, Flores’ pants and underwear were down, and his genitals were exposed, the statement said. All the witnesses' statements corroborated the father’s story, the release said.
    Flores had a green card and the sheriff’s office has been working with the Mexican Consulate to locate his family, The Gonzales Inquirer reported.

  • pfettig77

    It's unfortunate that the guy died because now it will be more difficult for the family (and especially the little girl) to shake the memory of the whole incident. It just made the whole ordeal bigger.

  • Guest

    Thank you Alan_T for posting the info

  • William00

    People should learn how to effectively take down an enemy. Bashing someones head into a pulp with your fist is quite barbaric and pretty messy. A quick and precise strike to the enemy's vital points could easily disable them.

    Of course i think you could say this was a "heat of passion" self-defense action because there wasn't really a need to kill the man(his claim that he didn't realize his beating would lead to the criminal's death shows that he probably wasn't in his right mind).

    Course death was probably more merciful than letting him get arrested. We all know what happens to people like that in jail…

    • Alan_T

      Williamoo , you don't know what you're talking about , Either you haven't actually read anything on the case or your reading comprehension is sorely lacking . Flores' head wasn't " bashed to a pulp " and the fact that Flores died from FEW blows surprises everyone connected with the incident .
      " People should learn how to effectively take down an enemy . " & " A quick and precise strike to the enemy's vital points could easily disable them. " ? ? ? you've been reading too many comic books and watching too many James Bond movies and to the contrary of what YOU say , the father showed remarkable restraint ! ! !
      Further more , for you to say , " Of course i think you could say this was a "heat of passion" self-defense action because there wasn't really a need to kill the man(his claim that he didn't realize his beating would lead to the criminal's death shows that he probably wasn't in his right mind). " Shows that YOU are the one who isn't in their right mind .

    • firetraq

      There was 100% need to kill this guy, even if the father went outside for a cigarette than went back in to finish him off, it would still be justified. He is a pedophile are you joking. The need was 100%

  • Alan_T

    Williamoo , you don't know what you're talking about , Either you haven't actually read anything on the case or your reading comprehension is sorely lacking . Flores' head wasn't " bashed to a pulp " and the fact that Flores died from FEW blows surprises everyone connected with the incident .
    " People should learn how to effectively take down an enemy . " & " A quick and precise strike to the enemy's vital points could easily disable them. " ? ? ? you've been reading too many comic books and watching too many James Bond movies and to the contrary of what YOU say , the father showed remarkable restraint ! ! !
    Further more , for you to say , " Of course i think you could say this was a "heat of passion" self-defense action because there wasn't really a need to kill the man(his claim that he didn't realize his beating would lead to the criminal's death shows that he probably wasn't in his right mind). " Shows that YOU are the one who isn't in their right mind .

  • Razor_Ray

    Judge, jury and executioner and not $.01 cent of taxpayer monies necessary…

  • https://www.facebook.com/greg.takemoto Greg Takemoto

    In my opinion when a father sees that his child is raped by a vile vicious sociopath the minimally acceptable force would be the death of the low life slithering scum sucking child molesting fecal maggot. Ripping the head off of the vicious child molester and shoving up the corpses anal cavity could be considered slightly excessive

  • cbadillo1

    I can only imagine walking in to see that going on, but I feel once you have commited a felony whatever happens to you is your problem and I don't understand how people can sit in judgement of something after the fact and determine that this man should know when to quit. If he had quit sooner he would have taken the risk that he quit too soon and been overpowered and forced to watch his daughter being molested. In the heat of battle is no time to stop and let the scumbag regain his composure. The man would in my opinion be right to cut him into little pieces. Molesters never stop he saved his little girl and who knows who else from pain…

  • Totiem

    Hello! Whose the victim? It wasn't a grown man against a 4 year old! The Father doesn't need permission to defend his daughter!

  • firetraq

    This father was totally in the right. Thank god it happened in Texas where he could actually defend his daughter, knowing the law would have his back. It would be questionable at best in California.

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