How Gun Owners Can Lose in the 2012 Election

LeftyLiberal

It may be shocking to some folks here that someone can be a liberal and a gun owner/believer in the second amendment, but I'd rather vote for people who believe in civil and women's rights in general than throw everything else I believe in out the window just in favor of the gun issue.

Besides, apart from the alarmist rhetoric of reality deniers, the only 2 things that have happened to gun legislation under the Obama administration are 1) the overturning of the DC handgun ban (which, sure, he was not at all responsible for) and 2) allowing firearms in national parks.

In other words: most of this 'Obama's come to get our guns' is right-wing posturing BS.

The hypocrisy of the right wing on social issues gives the lie to their crap about being the party of 'freedom' – I'd rather have a Clint Eastwood style gun advocate (who actually believes in individual liberty in GENERAL) in office than any of these wackos running for the GOP these days.

I don't know where respectable republicans have gone, but I hope they come back.

LeftyLiberal

And if you're out there – liberal believers in gun rights OR republican believers in true individual liberty – make yourselves heard instead of letting both our parties be hijacked by the state-nannies(D) or father-knows-bests(R).
HAMBONE

Supporting "liberal" agenda and owning a gun IS Hypocrisy defined. Moron.
- LeftyLiberal
  
  Look – if people with liberal social values actually realized they didn't have to throw in their lot with the GOP in order to support gun rights the democratic party would have a place to go. If all of us 'hypocrit morons' keep silent then it'll be all too easy for Dems keep demonizing gun's rights advocates along with the rest of the GOP. If the significant minority of dems who support gun rights spoke up about it more maybe we wouldn't have to make hard choices like this. (But right now, politics are the devil and the deep blue sea)
  - old vet
    
    No people like you who claim to be gun supporting patriots, yet praise the p*** of the likes of Obama and his minions. You are like a chicken supporting Col. Saunders.
  - Alan_T
    
    Oh Lefty , who are you trying to snow ( see ? I'm being polite , I didn't say the word I was really thinking ) ?
  - Ogre1
    
    It's called the Libertarian Party. We'll never actually win, but if you live in Texas like me, it doesn't matter, my vote is a statement.
    
    I completely agree with your assessment of Obama. Gun rights have actually INCREASED under his administration and all the …what does the guy say below…"Obama will let it all hang out in his 2nd term" sound a lot like the b.s. we heard about his first term. B.s. which never happened.
    
    Obama has introduced exactly ZERO gun legislation and there is none in the pipe. BUSH regulated guns more than Obama has.
    
    It amazes me how many of my fellow firearms owners are either willfully ignorant or incapable of doing their own research and let the pundits think for them. One person mentions the U.N. gun ban…. really? REALLY??? I've read it, there's not a damned thing in it about personal gun ownership. It's a trade agreement for Gods' sake. It affects sales of firearms OUTSIDE the United States. The myth that neo-cons keep spouting about it has been debunked time and time again.
    
    You people would blame Obama for the weather.
    
    You want a true conservative who supports a smaller government, less intrusive rules, and a balanced budget minus a lot of the garbage we have now? Gary Johnson in 2012.
    - Heartland Patriot
      
      Its a trade agreement and you can't see how that would affect Americans? How about driving all the prices up, just for starters? When all the foreign made firearms and ammo are banned from importation for civilians, the domestic supply will not be able to keep up with demand…and firearms ownership will decline…imagine that, the Democrat Party supporting a treaty that would cause a decline in firearms ownership…and c'mon, be honest, you probably support Gary Johnson because he wants to make it legal to get yourself baked on weed.
- Alan_T
  
  I would have said oxymoron , but hypocrisy works too , HAMBONE !
IndonesiaforUS

Any US President who praises urges emulation of a despotic nation's laws and constitution, has no respect for continuing liberty in the United States. E.g., "[President Obama] praised Indonesia – the world's most populous Muslim-majority nation – for a 'spirit of tolerance that is written into your constitution, symbolized in your mosques and churches and temples, and embodied in your people,' a quality worthy for all the world to emulate." Wilson, S. (Nov. 10, 2010) "Obama praises Indonesia's 'spirit of tolerance' as a model" retrieved Feb. 10, 2012 from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti…
LARRY BAAS

Do your homework. Obama has signed the U.N. gun ban treaty making civilian gun-ownership illegal. Fortunatly, without congress ratifying it, it cannot be enacted. Hillary Clinton has stated that Obama will not persue gun-control until after the 2012 election. Then after re-election, there will be an all-out assault on the 2nd amendment. Hopefully, If Repub,'s take the Senate, there will be no way for Congressional approval for the ban, unless he tries to do it thru executive fiat. And no-doubtably, he will. To deny this would be a blatant mis-representation of the facts. Fortunatly, more
Americans are now aware of Obama's subvertive schemes.
Gordon

If we lose our gun rights, we lose the whole country and all our freedoms. I don't care if you are democrat or conservative, we will lose ALL our rights. I know you have heard of Russia and Germany, when their gun "rights" were taken away, look what happened, six million Jews a n millions of Russians were murdered or thrown in jail never to be heard from again. Don't tell me it can't happen here, I think I know better.
- Helen
  
  I totally agree with you Gordon! I for one am waiting on my certificate to get my hard copy. I took the Carry Conceal class a few weeks ago and learned alot, and still learning. I have been telling everyone I know, get them while we still can!
- Alan_T
  
  Amen Gordon , I think I know better too
Clearcutter

Right-wing posturing? The BS is clearly betwen your ears and you're clearly not a student of history. Prezbident Obongo has a plain-as-day track record of hostility towards traditional American values and holds our Constitution and Bill of Rights in open contempt. He's a Statist, through and through, and fools like you have your head in the sand if you think that we of the Tea Party are willing to support political whores whom you deem "respectable". In reality, they're RINOs and are nearly as guilty as the Democrats when it comes to unravelling the fabric of our country and unravelling the fabric of American Exceptionalism.

Do us all a favor and move to Europe because you're not fit to call yourself an American.
- Not An Indian
  
  @ Clearcutter- unless your name is Sitting Bull, you (or I) have no right to tell anyone they shouldn't be here. So now, tell me how your grandma was 1/16th Cherokee!
  - Alan_T
    
    Okay …. My father is Creek Indian , if I recall correctly that makes me half , so Not An Indian and @Bigdog327 ……. move .
- Travlinsam
  
  Nice "@Bigdog327" I bet your mother is proud of you…
Pete

Thumbs up. It's nice to hear from someone that their Only news source isn't fox news.
old vet

Dream on………
coralgator

You have got to be kidding or is your short term memory fried ? Perhaps the most hideous attempt ever schemed at the attack on the 2nd amendment was orchestrated by this bunch now in power. Their continued blame assigning during their dirty dealing called -fast & furious- would never have been known had it not been for a Republican takeover of the House in 2010. Please look at the bigger picture and who and what we are now dealing with under the pretense of a legitimate administration.
- Ogre1
  
  You do know that F&F is a continuation of a Bush program, right?
  - Travlinsam
    
    Not in the illegal manner that Obama and his cronies have "changed" it…
  - tbow
    
    Actually its not. Its similar but its a completely different program than wide receiver and was also run much more poorly, and had it come to fruition probably would have been used as an excuse to take away our guns. Research something other than CNN.
  - Heartland Patriot
    
    No, not true. More of a re-boot and twisting of a Bush-era program that was shut down because they figured out it didn't work…and they at least tried to put tracking devices in the firearms under the Bush Administration…these crooks under the current administration didn't want the guns recovered…until they were found in Mexico, so they could back up the lying claims that ONLY, or PRIMARILY, its America's fault that the cartels get guns…when HUGE numbers of FULLY AUTOMATIC firearms make it to the cartel through the southern border of Mexico, or along the coastlines…do you have any idea how hard it is to get a fully auto weapon in the USA? Probably not…
Alan_T

Lefty , you are morally reprehensible and be riffed of any honesty and for YOU to talk of other peoples hypocrisy is the higth of irony .
- Reprehensible
  
  So anyone who disagrees with you is "morally reprehensible"? Good to know. Silly me, I've been praying to thewrong god all this time.
  - Alan_T
    
    No ….. just the ones who are . If you are implying that I think that I am God , the YOU must think you're Satan .I am happy to hear that you prey , 'tho , Rep .
Alan_T

Yeah Bigdog …. and Dorothy , pay no attention to that man behind the curtain . If YOU belive that nonsense you're spilling Bigdog ( which I doubt ) you're insane ( FACT )
Alan_T

You know what's REALLY SHOCKING , Lefty ? The fact that you seem to think that you're slick enough that nobody can see through you ! …. or maybe it's just pathetic and laughable .
bobby

youre stupid
- Alan_T
  
  Oh now bobby …… look at what you went and did , you hurt my feelings ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
https://www.facebook.com/suzieclary Suzie Nunnally Clary

Okay 'LeftyLiberal', it's called second term. I call you on the freakishly bizarre actions of "Fast and Furious' " for your so called not taking action, which is actually underhanded, hidden action so as not to raise the alert before second term action of Obama to give him more fodder for gun control that blew up in his face.
- Alan_T
  
  Better be careful Suzie , bobby might call you stupid !……. I wonder how long it took bobby to come up with that ……. I bet he / she had help HAHAHAHAHAHA
Iceman

I agree with you even though I truly appreciate the freedom to own guns. The NRA is simply a shill for the GOP and bank on only one issue when there are so many more causing problems in this country. The Democrats aren't going to take guns away/ That is just fear mongering and intimidation preached so people who can't think constructively become afraid and vote wrongly for the Republicans.
- Alan_T
  
  MAN ! ….. it's getting deep in here now ! I should have brought my waist waders Iceman ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
- Zmacht
  
  You mean sort of like all the Union workers who are forced to vote Democrat because they support unions?I have friends in the unions demanded to vote democrat,but,if they vote Democrat this year they cannot honestly pick Obama.He is not a democrat,nor does he represent anything we hard working Americans stand for.I hope you are right at least about the Dems taking our guns,but I am not as naive as you.
Stephen

You make a good point. I have always been a lefty and always interested in shooting and owning firearms. Was it not George Orwell who said that the rifle hanging in a workman's cottage was the symbol of democracy and liberation, and he was a Trotyskist who fought for the POUM in Spain against Franco's conservative fascists. I might have more respect for the posturing on "liberty" by some gun owners were they equally opposed to the restrictions on freedom in the Patriot Act, but that seems to be a blind spot for many conservatives. In the UK, we overturned the the attempt to impose a compulsory national identity card upon the British people without mass firearms ownership. We have more to do but it's a start on rolling back the authoritarian laws enacted in Britain over the last 10 years.
1954kad

LeftyLiberal is a George Soros/Media Matters plant.
Shorty

The reason Obama hasn't gone after our guns in the his first term is he knows if he passes anything negative in the first term, he wouldn't get a second. He gets re-elected, look out! But of course, like all liberals, you have your head in the sand. You think with your emotions instead of a brain. You talk about civil rights and women's rights. Those don't belong to the left. Democrats stalled civil rights in the sixties. It was Republican pressure that got civil rights moving. And Republican administrations since Reagan have had far more women in their cabinet than have Democrats. The first woman Supreme Court justice and the first secretary of state; both courtesy of Republican administrations. Think with your brain if you have one!
independent

Thanks for some sane input Lefty from another independent gun owner. All citizens should be able to open carry in my opinion crime would go down.
neither Republicans nor Democrats have the interest of the people at heart they love to divide us by party affiliation as it allows them to get away with doing the bidding of the Special interests groups/ big business while we bicker among ourselves.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000931110371 Jerry Gibbs

how about Holders gun runing in MX
Bill in Tulsa

Lefty… Please look around at what is happening. You are out of touch with what is happening. All for a free lunch so to speak…..Please look again.
R.D.WYLIE

I would vote for a CLINT EASTWOOD OR A CHARLES BRONSON at least crime would go down and
criminals would be on the indangered species list!!
Nelson

You have spewed One lie after another; HERE are Obama's attacks against the 2nd Amendment:
1. Operations Fast and Furious, Gunwalker, Castaway, that illegally funneled THOUSANDS of firearms out of the U.S. to, in OBAMA'S own words; "Go under the radar to enact gun control." 2. AFT Ban on the importation of ALL shotguns. 3. ATF regulation in forced reporting of purchasers of semi-automatic firearms in ONLY Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. 4. EPA attempted ban on ALL lead ammunition. 5. Closure or most shooting ranges on Federal Lands by Executive Order. 6. Interior Department banning shooting and firearms from Federal Land. obama doesn't intend to attack the 2nd Amendment by passing laws, he attacks it by REGULATION!
YOUR hypocrisy is astounding!
lissa754

I have been a life member of the NRA since 1976 and I agree completely with LeftyLiberal. Obama has done NOTHING to threaten gun owners in his first term and that is not just all part of a deceptive plan to screw us all over in his second term. Make no mistake — NO ONE will ever take away my guns while I am alive no matter who is president BUT, until I see even one reason to worry about that, there are much bigger issues to base my vote on. All this "right-wing posturing BS" is not going to make me vote for this new "Republican" party like I did the old one. This one is made up mostly of hatemongers and the idiots who follow them blindly.
DemocratNoMore

I think when I find the most reprehensible in this post is the fact that everyone seems to forget many things about Obama…

He has signed more unconstitutional legislation than any other sitting president. For example NDAA, the 128 executive orders he's signed (a number in secret, or during times that the public wouldnt notice), his complete believe in the democratic structure of United States rather than the true republic structure… For example:
http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_conten…

Personally, there is only one true champion of the Constitution that will always but the people and their rights before the government. Here's what Ron Paul had to say in regards to the attempted murder of the Arizona senator, buy a left wing, wing nut…
http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_conten…

I'm not going to sit here and completely blame Obama for everything because this goes back much further than him… But it cannot be overlooked at he is creating a huge divide in this country, with his policies, and his belly up approach to the UN and unconstitutional wars and drone attacks on other countries.

Larry Winchester

You are beyond help "lefty". You make no sense and you are just a troll. I won't waste my valuable time picking your statements apart, far too easy. They have no basis in fact and are specious at best, ignorant to a fault at worst.

RL G

I noticed you didnt even try. He did speak the truth about gun laws under Obama.
Gun Toting Democrat

Larry I like how you try and say that you don't want to waste your time picking apart their statements but the reality of the situation is that you have absolutely nothing to fight back with. Obama has in no way shape or form tried anything to take our guns away and you know it. If you would like to argue this all I ask is that you come up with one example of something he has done (it has to be true, not just something you heard on FOX) and we can debate this until we are blue in the face

Tim McGuire

Obama and his liberal fanatical following will let it all hang out with a second term. The Chicago gun decision was decided 5-4 which is scary enough. Remember that liberals (now called progressives since the term liberal incurred such a negative connotation due to their actions) will do anything to seize and/or control guns and will go as far as to allow the U.N. to decide U.S. gun control policy. I appeal to all clear thinkers to not vote for Obama. How could anyone who supported infantcide while in the Illinois Senate be the type of president this country should have. Infantcide is when the aborting doctor makes a mistake and the baby is born alive. Then the doctor must kill it while it is outside the mother's body. No, this is not China or Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany. This is the face of Obama.

http://twitter.com/Bigdog327 @Bigdog327

Think again Dumb Ass! Screw all of you conservatives. I am a Liberal and own many guns Legally in Chicago.
- Clearcutter
  
  First, I doubt you own any firearms–that goes double for handguns. Second, if you tried to obtain a concealed carry permit so as to exercise your Second Amendment right to keep and BEAR arms, you'd be denied in a heartbeat unless you were a personal friend of Mayor Rahm Emanuel. People of your ilk are natural subjects, not citizens, so do us all a favor and emigrate. You don't belong here, Statist.
- old vet
  
  Your grasp of the language speaks unwell for you. If you own MANY guns in Chicago, you are surely one of the chosen few.
  - Grammar Queen
    
    "Many" is a correct usage according to the standard rules of grammar
    - old vet
      
      You know to what I was talking. any more than none, is many there.So don't go all Webster.
- Alan_T
  
  " Dumb Ass ! " huh ? …..I'm here in Illinois ….and not in Chicago , you don't , @Bigdog327 , you liar .
Gary

Just so you are up to date on your info. Check Snopes.com about the U.N. Small arms treaty. I support the rest of what you said.

July4th1776

Sorry folks, I have to agree with Mr. Liberal up there.

While I am also aware of some in the Democratic Party who could stand a good lesson in the value of honoring the Second Amendment (which I hold absolutely sacred), the GOP candidates are so incredibly scary on much more important fronts to a respectful, functioning society that I can't support any of them in good conscience.

I'm not sure which is worse, Santorum or Romney. On the one hand you've got Santorum's ignoring the importance of separation of church and state while seemingly supporting the reintegration of religion into the rule of law. Then there is his recent positioning of Obama's point of view on everyone in the country aspiring to be as educated as possible as "snobbery." Are you kidding me? Being a snob means EXCLUDING people from the very things that give them power — like education and information. And the fact of the matter is, in 2009 when Obama made his statements about education he included trade schools, apprenticeships and other alternatives to college that Santorum tried to co-opt as his own thoughts.

Then there's Romney. Have we ever seen a person of privilege more out of touch with "Joe Six Pack?" He doesn't seem be able to related to anyone who doesn't make spur of the moment bets in $10,000 increments. And this weekend he compounded his troubled by trying to bond with common man by asserting that to reporters he's just like you and me because his wife drives "a couple of Cadillacs" while he is friends with people who OWN NASCAR teams.

In the good old days, ignorance was never equal to having your facts straights. I'm not sure when and how people began earning respect for uttering undereducated points of view and positioning them as facts. Just because you want them to be true does not make them so.

But I'll give you this, if the GOP gets elected we might NEED our Second Amendment rights more than ever. Because with those clowns in charge there is bound to be a revolution….American Style.

old vet

How can you call yourself the birthday of our great nation, with your obviously warped sense of what our God given rights are? You are the one spouting the B.S.
- Cliff Clavin
  
  Small point of order…strictly speaking the 2nd amendment is not a God given right. The only God given rights are those enumerated in the Declaration of Independance in the preamble. (life, liberty, and. the pursuit of happiness). I totally agree the 2nd is a right, but it is a granted one, not an unalienable one. Now, we certainly need to do what it takes to keep that right!
  - Alan Z…
    
    Sorry Cliff, but your reasoning is flawed. All true rights are given (endowed) by God. Governments don't grant rights, they grant priviledges; if the state grants it, the state can take it away.The right to keep and bear arms is a neccessary corralary to the right to life, therefor it is God-given. The right to life and to liberty implies the right to protect and defend them; and of what use are they without the means to do so? The right to arms is a natural right, and pre-exists any and all laws and governments. Research Locke and Montesque.
Alan_T

Of course you have to agree with Lefty , July 4th ….since you are probably the same person or barring that the two of you are working together from a script .
WYO-Citizen

You lost all credibility using talking points like separation of church and state and revolution if Republicans are elected. That tells me you have neither read nor understand the constitution. obama has already proven with his actions how he is out to destroy not only the second amendment but most of the constitution. The Republican candidates may have their faults, but every one of them is better than any democrat. Remember the president is not endowed with legislative powers, so electing pro-American, pro-second amendment candidates to state legislatures and congress is the best thing to do. Electing pro-constitution candidates is also a must.
guest

First of all, you must not really know what is written in our Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights. No where is there any mention of Seperation of Church and State. It states that the Government will not make any rules governing the Church. The only constitution that even mentions seperation of Church and State is the constitution for the country of Canada. Read up on your information before you jump in and make a complete fool of yourself because you are totally uneducated.
- https://www.facebook.com/suzieclary Suzie Nunnally Clary
  
  Actually it's in the USSR constitution, the separation of church and state.
  - https://www.facebook.com/suzieclary Suzie Nunnally Clary
    
    Also, I meant, also.
Walter

Then you are just as stupid as lefty !!!
JimboCitizen

July…IF there is a revolution …will you please be in the FRONT so I can shoot you FIRST?

Jmac

Lefty has a good point, I view my self as a conservitive liberal if there is such a thing. I don't like people making up my mind for me, telling me what i can or cannot own or say and take my personal privacy seriously and hate big brother so I take party rhetoric from either side with a grain of salt. For Republicans they all seem to be a string of bad choices almost a greek tradgedy with Ron Paul the only one that makes a little bit of sense and not sticking his foot in his mouth everytime he gets unlike the other 3.____If anything gun owners need to stick together regardless or personal political views and focus on the issue at hand, as there are plenty of people on EITHER side that would like nothing more to take your stuff. Beleiving it's only the Democrats is a foolish under estimation.__Constant contact with your elected representatives local, state and federal is the best bet instead of waiting and hoping for some savior President because I'll tell you personally I don't want to go back to the 1950's, the wild west is never coming back and Red Dawn is a movie. Politicians always want thier jobs____

FordElmo

Politicians like their peasants unarmed.
i hate liberals

retard that is called a libertarian
- https://www.facebook.com/james.mcwilliams1 James Mcwilliams
  
  ah yes, "retard" such a persuasive agrument..lol please go sniff some more glue and tell us how that works for you.

Tommy

Hillary apologized to the Mexican government for American gun owners. But she should have (but never has) apologized to Agent Brian Terry's family and all the Mexican families whose family members were killed because of Fast and Furious. That is about as backward thinking as Barack Obama's bowing to foreign leaders and yet refusing to salute the American flag or wear the flag as a lapel pin. (The first president in recent memory to do so). Both of them show their true allegiance is to the UN and NOT the USA.

Alan_T

I wonder if Hilary apologised to Vince Foster before he got capped in the park ?
Phil

Tommy, There never was an incident where our President did not salute the Flag of the United States.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=681808530 LaVerne Wisdom Boyd
  
  Tommy, I have seen pictures of him and his wife doing a "crotch" salute because that is where their hands were! Another picture I saw of them, they had their hands on their right side instead of their left – almost like a insult!!!!

PhilMarx

"LeftyLiberal" did not mention that Mr. Obama opposed both "overturning the DC handgun ban" as well as "national park carry". Only a bipartisan majority (Democrats have been afraid to lose even more votes if they don't jump on the bandwagon, I suppose) made the latter possible.
Please remember: During his tenure as senator there was not a single "anti-gun" or "gun control bill" Obama did not support! He fiercely opposes gun rights whenever he can.
It's also noteworthy that the vast majority of UN members Obama and Clinton trust so much are no democracies as we would define them. Take Russia and China as examples. And they should decide how WE are "allowed" to defend our rights and our freedom? Ridiculous!
Quickly, the "Second Amendment" would go. The "First" and many more rights would follow soon.

old vet

That's because the truth is invisible to Lefties kind.
jus' sayin'

Phil- The United States is a republic. Democracies hold the popular vote above individual rights. Imagine 2 lions and a gazelle voting on what to have for lunch. That gazelle better hope he lives in a republic.
Eduardo

But in reality, the only two gun-related bills Obama has signed gives the right to carry in Parks and in in Amtrak. Extreme right wing guys like to ascribe to Obama things that he has not said nor done and then argue against him. Perfect straw man tactics.
I'd rather have Obama than Mitt who has really said and done things against gun owners while in Mass.

Robert Bianco

Viet Nam Vet. Just remember a lot of lives have been lost trying to defend this constitution and Obama wants to dismantle this. Joe Biden wrote the assault weapons bill. Fienstien wants to take every firearm away from us along with Palosi. I really don't care if your Republican or Democrat, Liberal just vote them out of office.

Phil

If you are a Viet Nam vet you are near the same age as I. Yup through them out and you may be able to by a tank and have more young people die in useless wars but you will also be part of a third world country as that is where the Republicans want the US to be. Telling them it is a snob to get an education is the worst thing I have ever seen.
dave

Second that, throw all those crooked #%@s out!
siobhan

My husband: Vietnam vet and deer hunter..has had no problems with adhering to the gun laws that are meant to protect others.. Guns do need to be kept out of the hands of the mentally ill and felons. Anyone in my state can own guns. I don't understand all the hoopla..What specific issues regarding gun control do you have a problem wiht?.

Rags

I am a die hard conservative, no doubt about it………..Why can't we get someone better than the four who are running for president? I am afraid of what is to come…..We very well may lose this next election even if one of these so-called republicans happens to win. The only hope I see is to take over the house (more strongly) and win back the Senate with a strong majority. This way we can control any mistakes that may arise from Mr. President or his successor.

Clearcutter

If you want some one better, then you'll have to convince Rep. Paul Ryan to run. In general, the Ruling Class in Washington, D.C. has little tolerance for people who actually want to restore Constitutional rule of law to our country. Read "The Ruling Class" by Angelo Codevilla for a good primer as to what's been going on for the last century. It's an eye opener for most people who aren't already politically active.

Tracy

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence…" – George Washington

"…the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation… forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of." – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, 1788

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." – George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment, 1788

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?" – Patrick Henry

If Obama wins, we all lose. Capisce? ABO 2012.

Neal R

THAT's where we can win. Arms to all is what has to be taught.
thunderbolt67

Is this the reason that Obama failed to faithfully carry out his
duty?

On January 21, 2009, Chief Justice Roberts administered the presidential oath a second time to Barack Obama "out of an abundance of caution," according to the White House, because, when the oath was administered to President Obama the first time in the public inauguration ceremony, the word "faithfully" was misplaced. The second oath was administered in a simple, private ceremony in the Map Room of the White House.[16][25][26][27] Obama's oath-retaking differed from all his predecessors' in that the private ceremony happened after the public one.

sgt.ret

I think we're being used by the right to get elected, how many times do you think Mitt has actually fired a firearm? And paying someone to do it for you doesnt count. And Santourum? Gun ownership doesnt exactly fit his catholic beliefs (the vatican supports heavy gun control). So what are we to do? Vote in a christian Ayatolla, who would be happy to legislate his own beliefs into law? Or give the keys over to big corporate MItt who doesnt give a damn about the normal american worker? Why should I have to side with either of them just to ensure my 2nd amendment rights? Either way it makes it easy for Obama. What ever happened to a live and let live mind set? If it doesnt infringe on other citizens rights or freedoms, it should be legal. If it does, its not. Period

Dane

sounds like you want Ron Paul . I agree ! Live and let live . So just don't tread on me or mine .
- I Can Think 4 Myself
  
  So you are okay with your child's bus driver being a drug user?
  - ohiolibertarian
    
    Your child's bus driver is probably an alcoholic and last I checked alcohol causes more deaths than all other drugs combined so….. I guess there is that naysayer…
- ATF/WTF
  
  No, that's why they get tested and fired. I just don't want my tax money spent on an obviously ineffective "drug war". You makes your choices, then live with the consequences.
Joe

I am a devout Catholic and a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. I have not heard anything from the Vatican that is anti Second Amendment. There are some people that call themselves Catholic (Like Nancy Pelosi and some clergy) that are anti Second Amendment. These people I call Christian Ashiest.
Tired of Obummer

Just remember t his–If you don't vote FOR one of "those" four Republicans you are voting FOR Obama. I will take my chances with Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, or Paul. How can it get worse????
mark cass

I tend to agree in general. The issue, for any other candidate, is actually being able to get elected. We HAVE to contend with the fact that elections are not a buffet line where we pick and chose what WE like and ignore the rest. The ideal GOP candidate would be hated by the rest and thus being unable to get elected.

Reagan got elected at a time of crisis and the nation was lucky to have him. But they do not make them anymore just like him. So, being a pragmatist, I will work on getting ANY republican elected to the WH and the senate and the hope of having some senators with real gonads to hold the future president, whoever he happens to be, accountable for his legislative bent.

djs

I only have one thing to say! They can have my guns, when that pull them from my cold dead hands!

Neal R

YEP !!!!!

Dondo

The currant Republican presidential candidates continue beating up on each other and apparently ignore the fact(s) that: a)There are more Democrats than Republicans in the U.S., as well as in most of the states with the most electoral votes, b) Politically, the U.S. is pretty much centrist, and c) the independant i.e. moderate voters will decide the election. It appears to me the battle among our Republican presidential candidates as to who is the strongest conservative does not bode well in defeating Obama. As such, the most effective and possibly the easier way to maintainig/improving our gun rights is to assure keeping/growing our Republican majority in the House, and most especially getting a Republican majority in the Senate. The Senate approves Supreme Court appointees as well as other Federal judgeships and approves treaties. With these two houses in hand, Obamas hands will be tied. Getting a Republican president in the white House will be a huge plus, but failing that a Republican Congress is a must.

Scott

Do you have any idea how crazy some of these comment sound? I just subscribe to Guns & Ammo to get away from the paranoid ramblings at the NRA. I know they do some good work on behalf of the second amendment but our President isn’t evil, he’s not coming to take your guns. He’ s only signed two pieces of gun legislation in his first three years in office allowing CC in National parks and Amtrak trains.

We really don’t do ourselves any good sounding like those who oppose Second amendment right want to portray us. Drop it back a notch it seems hypocritical to wrap yourself in a flag claim you’re the only true patriot and disparage the Commander and Chief.

old vet

Who do you think is running this sight? Not the N.R.A. All these so called paranoid ramblings are on a G+A sight.
- Scott
  
  That’s why I don't subscribe to the National Rifleman and more. You can watch it on cable for free.
  I'm a strong supporter of our second amendment an independent voter. Republicans are in the pocket of the Corporations and the Democrats are pussies. But I do have faith in the people. If we can just vote every incumbent out of office and the new legislators see the soldering wreckage that was their 80% re-election rate maybe they’ll start to represent "WE the people" again.
  - old vet
    
    O.K. I think we can all be friends.
  - Alan_T
    
    I smell a RAT ! ….Scott, old buddy , it's NOT the National Rifleman it's AMERICAN RIFLEMAN so I strongly doubt you subscribed to anything !
https://www.facebook.com/suzieclary Suzie Nunnally Clary

I'll repeat what I wrote to LeftyLiberal:
It's called second term. I call you on the freakishly bizarre actions of "Fast and Furious' " for your so called not taking action, which is actually underhanded, hidden action so as not to raise the alert before second term action of Obama to give him more fodder for gun control that blew up in his face.
And as someone pointed out, it was the incoming Republican congress that brought Fast and Furious to light.
Don't forget, H Clinton just made some kind of agreement with UN regarding giving up our gun rights. Who does she work for?
Greg Lester

Well written my friend!

Sincerely,

Lieutenat Colonel Gregory Lester
US Army Reserve
Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan) & Operations Iraqi Freedom Veteran

Old Guy

After reading LeftyLiberal and July4th1776, I am now REALLY afraid!!! These people don't know what the constitution says or stands for. You can have all the debates in the world about one politician or another, but if we have lost our firearms, the Government will tell you exactly what you are going to do in every aspect of your personal lives. Women's rights? No one has any rights without the right to protect oneself and family.

sgt.ret – Live & let live is not the way of big government – and that is where we are now with those in government figuring out ways to control your life. It will be a lot easier for them if Obama wins again. Two more Supreme Court appoinments and no one will have more than a water pistol.

LeftyLiberal

The GOP is not the party of live-and-let-live. The crap they try to pull on women, minorities, and people of other faiths is exactly what you're telling me I should be afraid of if we lost our gun rights.

You're telling me that without gun rights our other rights will be lost, but the party that's supposed to be supporting our gun rights is already taking our other rights away.

The fact that we still have our guns hasn't done a thing to stop 'em.
old vet

Sadly, they will never understand, these so called "progressives" justify their views by seeing our constitution as "living" or evolving. this gives them license to interpret it at their will. If true Americans do nothing this next election, we will get what we deserve.
- LeftyLiberal
  
  How dare you claim to be more American than me, or any other citizen who chooses to exercise his conscience and freedom of speech.
  - old vet
    
    I would never deny anyone has their freedom of speech or their opinion. Just marvel at their views. And defend my STRONG disagreement with such.
    - LeftyLiberal
      
      And that I can and do respect – but I think we should leave questions of patriotism out of it! Let's be fair. I support gun rights, I just can't in good conscience vote for today's GOP.
    - Alan_T
      
      Oh … I don't know Lefty …. I don't think your conscience has anything to do with it . If it did , you wouldn't have been here in the first place .
    - old vet
      
      P.S. I'm not the one who referred to you as "troll" I think that was uncalled for.
    - old vet
      
      P.S.S. You opened this can of worms yourself by being the first poster. LIVE WITH IT!
    - LeftyLiberal
      
      I'm sorry for my part in letting the rhetoric get out of hand! I'm just too frustrated by modern politics. There's plenty about the democrats I'm unhappy about too.
      
      I respect your service and opinion and those of anyone who attempts to have a rational argument in good faith about their beliefs.
      
      There's too much dogma and too much preying on the blind faith of people who are passionate about individual issues.
      
      I wish we would advocate for things we believe in, rather than agitate against straw-man arguments. I know I'm as much as fault as anybody.
    - Alan_T
      
      Gee , that'd mighty big of you Lefty …. now cry us some crocodile tears to complete the picture .
  - old vet
    
    I'm NOT the one who referred to you as "troll", that was over the edge, But you opened this post so Live with it.
    - LeftyLiberal
      
      Hey – I'm not complaining about the thread! Debate is good.
    - old vet
      
      O.K. This is a highly emotional topic and some get rather excited I'm sure we can all agree to dis-agree on some things but we can keep it friendly. Be well BRO.
    - LeftyLiberal
      
      Agreed. Be well.
- You Should Read # 22
  
  It is a living document. That is why it has an amendment process…so that it can evolve to adapt to a future the authors knew they couldn't predict. It is that very same adaption process that makes sure 2016 can't include Obama. Furthermore, it is the entire roll of the supreme court to interpret the constitution.
  - I should read # 22
    
    role, not roll… My bad
  - old vet
    
    I was not referring to the amendment aspect of the document, but to the main body where the fundamentals are, where all the geniuses dive in and see if they can interpret it their way. Even justices try this trick.
    - old vet
      
      What I meant to refer to was already established and written part.
mike

news flash the govt already does and regardless of how many guns we have how many gun owners vote, locally? that is the 1st stept to power…if you wait till the general election the battle is already lost cince the lawmakers in congrss and the senate already have their precious seats and paychecks. Dont fool yourself into thinking the conservatives dont want big gov't…they do! they just want to govern stuff that you are comfortable with!! Government is not inherently bad! it goes bad when the populous only takes their heads out of the sand every 4 years or so!

Freeman

The rulers and most gun groups have it wrong on national carry. The bill of rights says 'keep and bear arm'.
'Keep' means have them in your house, 'bear' means carrying arms with you. A one sentence bill that simply tells all gestapo agents that that all citizens have the right to bear are anywhere they have a right to be is it. Even if the current bill passes, us peasants will still have to deal with a patchwork of statutes. Use the Vermont model. If you are a citizen, you can carry a gun. NO addition licenses or rules required.

siobhan

What if you have just been released from a mental hospital for a Scizophrenic episode..or a felon who has already done time and is back on the street. Should ALL citizens own guns? I don't think so.